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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

1914 clasp


Skipman

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Mike,

Well at least it confirms the 8th Royal Scots were entitled but does not answer the, now academic, question were they issued to casualties,killed during or after the relevant period automatically, or are we to assume the last paragraph includes Relatives of the deceased man? Questions, on a postcard,addressed to the MOD. :lol:

George

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It also contains at least one error. Members of XXXV Brigade RFA received the clasp.

Keith

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This particular website has heaps of really good stuff ,not usually much for sale but plenty of information on regiments and medals ,

MC

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A good site for sure have placed in my fav. Thanks for the link.

Dan

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Phil,

A rough and ready calculation would be to multiply the number of men in the Units recorded in the Appendix e.g. the 8th Royal Scots record 2 Officers wounded,2 OR's killed and 8 wounded with a strength of 27 Officers and 929 OR's in their end of November 1914 War Diary and take that away from the number of Stars issued i.e.365,000 per Chris on the LLT Introductory Pages.

But I ain't doing it,I have difficulty after 20.:lol:

George

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Since virtually all cavalry, infantry and artillery units would qualify, it might be easier to ask "Who didn`t qualify?"

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As no musters survive, who qualified and who didn't is the cause for endless speculation.

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I found this web page, and hope it might be useful to some.

1914 Clasp/Bar

Cheers Mike

quality information, great stuff

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There is a vast difference between qualification for the Clasp & those who actually applied,given that Clasps to those who had deceased should have been automatically granted if qualification was proven.As the clasp was an afterthought to the Star & most men had left the ranks by the time of its issue,it was reckoned that around 1/3 of those who were entitled didn't claim it for whatever reason,though it was well publicised through the OCAs,Legion,Press etc;@ the time.Presumably a number of casualties Clasps were omitted & unissued too.

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Is it legitimate to add a clasp to the star of a man KIA Sept 1914, even though he may not have applied and therefore not been issued with one? :unsure:

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Phil,

I would argue no,although others may disagree.

The fact that the MIC does not record the issue of the Clasp,means it was not officially awarded.

I accept your point that a man KIA,in September 1914,must be entitled but in my case I have two Stars,without Clasps to men killed in 1915 and 1918.All the evidence suggests they were with their Battalion,at the front,during the qualifying period but equally the Battalion,may have moved forward but they remained in a transit camp,en route from Le Havre to the front,not actually joining the Battalion,at the front, until after 22 November 1914.

Whilst there is no suggestion your question implies the wearing or display of incorrectly awarded Clasps there is also the problem,as we have recently read,of decorations being worn by men,who were not entitled to wear them.

George

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MS,

I agree but an example from one page of a Star Medal Roll.

12 Names,5,of whom,claimed their Clasp and Roses.

2 of the remaining 7,are noted as either KIA or DoW,in 1915,neither received the Clasp.

I know of 1 other,who was KIA,after the Roll was compiled in January 1918,again his NoK either did not claim or receive his Clasp.

The page is quite comprehensive giving reasons for discharge and date i.e. Time Expired,transfer to another Regiment,discharged under Para 392(xvi) K.R.

George

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The note in the link: The description of all units is that held during the qualifying period for the award of the clasp to the "1914 Star". is inaccurate. The list provided is only of Army units, it does not include the 1914 Stars issued by the Admiralty.

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I agree but an example from one page of a Star Medal Roll.

12 Names,5,of whom,claimed their Clasp and Roses.

2 of the remaining 7,are noted as either KIA or DoW,in 1915,neither received the Clasp.

I know of 1 other,who was KIA,after the Roll was compiled in January 1918,again his NoK either did not claim or receive his Clasp.

It is always worth checking the MiC as well however for late claims etc that did not always appear on the Roll

Whilst it is frustrating to "know" a man is entitled to a Clasp by time frame etc;it is no different from adding any other unentitled Campaign clasp to a QSA/IGS/GSM Medal etc;if the man is not recorded as being entitled "C&R" then officially no entitlement is confirmed & the clasp should not ethically be added.

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QUOTE (Phil_B @ Jan 9 2010, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But if you were framing a set, say, would you/have you ever done it, HB?

Phil B;

I have {re~}added a Clasp to a Star so entitled & confirmed; & therefore shown as issued in Records, MiC &/or Medal Rolls,as due to the nature of the Clasp being a "sew on",they are easily detached & mislaid,replaced with jewellers replacements,etc; over the decades & Medals are often accquired initially,without Ribbons, but in all honesty, I have never added one to an unenititled/unrecorded entitled Star,no more than I would add a 1st Army or 8th Army Clasp to an unentitled Africa Star,etc;,I would not consider that to be "right",perhaps I am being pedantic but historically I feel they should not be altered for convenience.

With respect HB

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It is always worth checking the MiC as well however for late claims etc that did not always appear on the Ro

Harry,

The MIC's record no Clasp being issued either. :lol:

George

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There was over 70 years for the recipients and their relatives to claim the clasp from the authorities; if they didn't do it why should someone more remote from the events decide they have the right to award it?

The problem really lies in the botched nature of the original award and the failure to recognise the problems caused not only by the casualties of WWI, but also by the rapid discharge of serving personnel.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi I'm wondering if every man who was entiltled to the 1914 medal also got the clasp with it. The reason is my ggranda served with 2nd Connaught Rangers he arrived in country on 14th August. The only action he fought was at Le-Grand-Fayt and a few days later was sent home due a medical complaint. When looking on his mic there is no mention of it. Would he recieved it but not mentioned on his mic.

Thanks.

Dominic.

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Hi I think the bar was added for those who were under fire in France and Belgium between 5th August and 22nd November 1914.

Gary.

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Not every one was entitled to the clasp.

Authorized in April 1917 for award to those that served with the British and Indian Expeditionary Forces in France or Belgium on the establishment of a unit between 5th August 1914 and midnight on 22/23 November 1914. Naval personnel who served ashore were included. A bar was announced in 1919 for those who had actually came under fire between the appropriate dates.

Army Order 361, 1919 - "1914 Star- Grant of Clasp"

1. His Majesty the King has been graciously pleased to approve of the issue of a clasp to officers, warrant officers, non-commissioned officers and men who have actually been awarded the '1914 Star' under Army Order 350 of 1917, and who actually served under fire of the enemy in France and Belgium between the 5th August, 1914, and midnight 22nd/ 23rd November, 1914.

Cheers Andy.

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and you needed it verified, not that easy, as not everone who was there in 1914 was still around in 1919, if the soldier had died how could he claim? this is the cae in my own family

matt

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