HMS President II

[Guest wiz20]

Is there any photo's out there of the ship/land unit my grandfather was on, HMS President 2. He was grade 2 aircraftman No 15986 Leonard Witt, and awarded the the silver war badge on the 17 Jan 1918.

Regards the wiz

[Stephen Nulty]

Wiz

HMS President II wasn't a ship, it was an "accounting base" for the Royal Naval Air Service.

As such, a person may have simply been recorded as serving on "HMS President" whilst they were “in between” ships, serving at an external base, and as it was an accounting base someone listed at President II could also be on a ship or boat too small for it’s own paymaster.

[ShirlD]

Wecome to the Forum Wiz, I found the President reference confusing when I was first researching my grandfather. Keep searching and hopefully you will find much to interest you here. Good luck!

Cheers

Shirley

[Toms girl]

Hi Wiz

Welcome aboard, My Grandfather was also on President 2, but it was in WW2. He served in the navy from 1903 to 1927 but was invited to volunteer for WW2. Was with President from 27.8.39 - 12.6.40 as he was a signaller I wonder what he was doung in accounts. I would be very interested if you find out more.

regards Margarette

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Being on the books of His Majesty's Ship President II did not mean that a man was involved in accounting! That was the nominal ship that he was attached to for the purposes of Naval Discipline. The staff of President II looked after his pay and other administration, such as forwarding his mail!

In WWI President II was an unbrella accounting base for the RNAS. The man could be on a small ship, or on a naval airstation anywhere in the country or France too.

[Toms girl]

Thanks Per Adua,

My confusion is that he was supposed to be training wrens (thats what he told my grandmother anyway!)

regards Margarette

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Between the dates you have mentioned President II was a general accounting base for men from the reserves. It does not mean that he was confined to a specific task or location. Sometimes the clerks wrote the specific location (some examples in WWI for the RNAS: Crystal Palace, Dunkirk, Luce Bay all under the umbrella of President II), but in WWI they maintained a seperate card index. So having President II on his service record does not contradict the story your grandfather father told about training Wrens.

[Toms girl]

Thank goodness for that as he was awarded a medal for it!

Thank you for the explanation Per Adua

reagrds Maergarette

[John Cunningham]

Hi, I'm currently researching some family history of RNAS personnel. I've obtained from the National Archives the Service record in question, which has thrown up a couple of interesting queries regarding Shore Establishments.

The rating in question has the anotation President II, which I know was an accounting base for the London area, with the locations C Palace, Withnoe, C Palace and Cranwell.

My question is this, would the period (of 20 days) served at Withnoe, have been for musketry training. The internet, and indeed, this forum, has turned up little information on Withnoe except as a RE base during WW1 or as a Palmerston Fort.

Can anybody shed light on this location and why it would have been covered by HMS Presiden?

Cheers

John

[horatio2]

RNAS Withnoe was an aircraft storage unit, opened in early 1918 and handed over to the newly-formed RAF shortly thereafter. He was probably undertaking a short training course on aircraft stored there, after an initial period of training at Crystal Palace. There was no need for men to travel as far as Cornwall for musketry training with the ranges at, for example, Chatham much closer to hand. HMS President was the accounting base for many such smaller RNAS units that were not self-accounting (not just London area).

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Welcome to the forum John,

Does his record have a comment that he transferred to the RAF? If so there is another record for him in AIR 79 offline at the UK National Archives, Kew. If he qualified for medals with the RNAS they would be listed in the medal roll found in ADM 171, these are on microfilm at Kew.

 

[John Cunningham]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. The date of posting to Withnoe were between the 7th and 27th of October 1917, 3 days after enlistment. His record does indeed state that he was transferred to the RAF. There is some other (currently) illegible information on the record. If I can figure out how to attach the PDF image, I will do so, so some of you more knowedgable chaps can hopefully decypher. It also states that he served in the Eastern Mediterranean.

Regards

John

[per ardua per mare per terram]

RAF service records are stored in service number order. To find his RAF number: drop the F prefix and add 200000. So F1 became 200001, 33333 became 233333 etc.

[Super Trooper]

Thanks for the information, currently researching a Francis Coupe Dodd, who was killed when his plane struck a Canadian Air Aces plane and both were killed, his records mention that he was a leading mechanic before he became a pilot for 3 years, and says he served in France, Belgium and the Dardanelles, however, the records only mention that he was at President II and Pembroke III, so the above explanation makes things clearer.

 

[pete-c]

5 hours ago, Super Trooper said:

Thanks for the information, currently researching a Francis Coupe Dodd, who was killed when his plane struck a Canadian Air Aces plane and both were killed, his records mention that he was a leading mechanic before he became a pilot for 3 years, and says he served in France, Belgium and the Dardanelles, however, the records only mention that he was at President II and Pembroke III, so the above explanation makes things clearer.

 

 

FC Dodd killed while flying Sopwith F.1 Camel D9590.  Collided with Sopwith F.1 Camel B7249 (Capt JG Manuel DSC) when both dived to attack hostile aircraft over Neuve Chapelle, 10.6.1918.