Lt Geoffrey Angell 8th Gurkha Rifles

[Dorset]

I need some help as I am unable to find how a great uncle died on 13 May 1915. He is buried at St Vaast Post Cemetery and we believed that he might have died of wounds rather than KIA. I have read much of the available literature which lists names of casualties but there is no mention of any direct action by his battalion the battle of Aubers Ridge which ended on 9th May although 8th Gurkhas were heavily shelled. I cannot find any detail on military-genealogy.com. Grateful for any assistance although I acknowledge this is perhaps too detailed a request.

[sotonmate]

Dorset

Aubers Ridge didn't end until 15 May. This man's unit, 2nd Battalion of the 8th Gurkha Rifles,was part of Garwhal Brigade of 7th Indian (Meerut) Division,which was part of the British ORBAT for the Artois Battles.

You might want to seek out the unit War Diary which is at Kew under WO95/3946 and runs from Oct 1914 to Nov 1915.

I sought this man in Soldiers Died in the Great War (SDGW) but had no contact for him so can't comment on whether he was KIA or DOW.

Sotonmate

[Dorset]

Dorset

Aubers Ridge didn't end until 15 May. This man's unit, 2nd Battalion of the 8th Gurkha Rifles,was part of Garwhal Brigade of 7th Indian (Meerut) Division,which was part of the British ORBAT for the Artois Battles.

You might want to seek out the unit War Diary which is at Kew under WO95/3946 and runs from Oct 1914 to Nov 1915.

I sought this man in Soldiers Died in the Great War (SDGW) but had no contact for him so can't comment on whether he was KIA or DOW.

Sotonmate

Many thanks for your help - I have ordered the diary and see what it reveals tomorrow.

[Old Owl]

Hi Dorset,

He is listed in the Cross of Sacrifice as Kia on 13/5/15. Whether he was actually Kia or Dow's that same day, is difficult to say. He is not mentioned in the 'Indian Corps in France' or 'Sepoys in the Trenches' and I have not located any mention of him in the books which I have to hand.

Do you know which school he was educated at? I may be able to help if you can let me have this information. Local newspapers are anther good source for such detail and photographs.

If I can help further , please let me know.

Robert

[Dorset]

Hi Dorset,

He is listed in the Cross of Sacrifice as Kia on 13/5/15. Whether he was actually Kia or Dow's that same day, is difficult to say. He is not mentioned in the 'Indian Corps in France' or 'Sepoys in the Trenches' and I have not located any mention of him in the books which I have to hand.

Do you know which school he was educated at? I may be able to help if you can let me have this information. Local newspapers are anther good source for such detail and photographs.

If I can help further , please let me know.

Robert

Just checked with my mother - he went to Boston Grammar School in Lincolnshire. Very many thanks for your help.

[Dorset]

Just got the war diary from the National Archives - an excellent service. He was killed by a trench mortar in the front line; however, still need to know what company he was in?

[Old Owl]

Hi Dorset,

I'm afraid that I don't have any info on Boston Grammar School, so can't help there. The school does have a web site: bostongrammarschools.co.uk

It may be worth an email to see if they have an obituary from the school magazine which may give more info on how he was killed and in which company of the 2/8th Gurkhas he served.

I rather feel that you may struggle with this? but it may also be worth contacting the Gurkha Museum at Winchester, you never know!

Good Luck and Seasons Greetings.

Robert

P.S. He is mentioned on a church memorial in Bedford.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

As he served in the Indian Army, he may have records at the British Library unfortunately; not all of their information is online.

http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/iofhs.shtml

[Dorset]

Many thanks

[Matthew B.]

As he served in the Indian Army, he may have records at the British Library unfortunately; not all of their information is online.

http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/iofhs.shtml

In his case they will not. Before about 1930 when an officer died in service his record of service was sent to his family as a momento.

I have a few photocopied pages of the regimental history of the 8th GR and his death gets mentioned but does not indicate which company. I afraid if the war diary did not say you will not know - the unit war diary was the primary record for the battalion. How much of it did you get copied? If you have a few pages it might mention him being posted between companies.

As it happens a man I am interested in was wounded around the same time - Captain Molesworth - do your pages list him at all?

I hope that helps

Matthew

[KevinBattle]

I haven't seen any reference to his parents, Col. Frederick John Angell and Lillie Angell (as shown in CWGC records)

Will that be of any assistance in your enquiries?

May be the reason why he served with the Gurkhas, following in fathers footsteps?

[per ardua per mare per terram]

In his case they will not. Before about 1930 when an officer died in service his record of service was sent to his family as a momento.

They may have copies of any pre war annual assessments and also his assessment for a scholarship at Sandhurst, if he received one.

[Matthew B.]

They may have copies of any pre war annual assessments and also his assessment for a scholarship at Sandhurst, if he received one.

I am sorry but I disagree. His annual confidential reports form part of his officers record of services and they would be held together. The ACR's were shown to the officers in question every year and initialed by them.

If his name was put forward for a India Cadetship for Sandhurst yes, the correspondance relating to that is seperate and available on microfilm.

Matthew

[Matthew B.]

His father, Col. Frederick John Angell, was a retired officer of the Army Ordnance Corps

He won a prize cadetship to the RMC at Sandhurst in September 1912

Angell passed out of Sandhurst in January 1914 and was placed on the Unattached List for the Indian Army in the rank of 2/Lt with a view to appointment in the Indian Army.

Normally he would have spent about a year attached to British Regiment in India learning how to handle men before (hopefully) being accepted by the IA regiment he applied for.

In his case he was accepted by the 1st battalion the 8th Gurkha Rifles

He was accepted for admission to the Indian Army as a 2/Lt 14th October 1914.

I have no idea when he was attached to the 2nd battalion - the war diary should be able to indicate when he joined the regiment in the field that plus his medal index card may give a date of landing in France

The 2nd Bn 8th G.R. were in support of the Dehra Dun brigade assault moved into assembly trenches behind the attack on the 9th May. The assult failed and the 2/8th were left holding the line. They were subject to a 12 hour bombardment on the 9th and again on the 10th May, when they had moved to a position near the Orchard. On the 15th they were relived by the Black Watch. In this tour of the trenches they lost 1 B. O. (Angell) and 14 riflemen killed and 6 BO's , 6 Viceroy Comissioned Officers and 314 Orther Ranks wounded. To give you an idea of that these few days cost the battalion , they had gone into the line, I think, with 10 B.O.'s 12 VCO and 630 OR's. Only just about half the regiment came out of the line unwounded.

Hope that helps

Matthew

[Dorset]

His father, Col. Frederick John Angell, was a retired officer of the Army Ordnance Corps

He won a prize cadetship to the RMC at Sandhurst in September 1912

Angell passed out of Sandhurst in January 1914 and was placed on the Unattached List for the Indian Army in the rank of 2/Lt with a view to appointment in the Indian Army.

Normally he would have spent about a year attached to British Regiment in India learning how to handle men before (hopefully) being accepted by the IA regiment he applied for.

In his case he was accepted by the 1st battalion the 8th Gurkha Rifles

He was accepted for admission to the Indian Army as a 2/Lt 14th October 1914.

I have no idea when he was attached to the 2nd battalion - the war diary should be able to indicate when he joined the regiment in the field that plus his medal index card may give a date of landing in France

The 2nd Bn 8th G.R. were in support of the Dehra Dun brigade assault moved into assembly trenches behind the attack on the 9th May. The assult failed and the 2/8th were left holding the line. They were subject to a 12 hour bombardment on the 9th and again on the 10th May, when they had moved to a position near the Orchard. On the 15th they were relived by the Black Watch. In this tour of the trenches they lost 1 B. O. (Angell) and 14 riflemen killed and 6 BO's , 6 Viceroy Comissioned Officers and 314 Orther Ranks wounded. To give you an idea of that these few days cost the battalion , they had gone into the line, I think, with 10 B.O.'s 12 VCO and 630 OR's. Only just about half the regiment came out of the line unwounded.

Hope that helps

Matthew

Many thanks for this. Geoffrey Angell's father Frederick (my Great Grandfather) was originally commissioned in the Royal Irish Fusiliers. For interest both of Frederick's brothers were killed in Africa in the Griqualand Uprising (1881) and in the Boer War at Paardeberg (1900). He left the Royal Irish Fusiliers because apparently it was an expensive Regiment. However, his eldest son John (covered elsewhere on this site) followed him into the Regiment before falling into debt and being Court Martialed. The other 2 brothers joined the Indian Navy and Army respectively as it was a cheaper option. John re-joined the the Army as a soldier and was a Sgt in 2 KRRR at Auber's Ridge where he met Geoffrey just before he died. He went on to command 8 Bn MGC and lasted the war.

Photograph of Geoffrey below:

[Dorset]

In his case they will not. Before about 1930 when an officer died in service his record of service was sent to his family as a momento.

I have a few photocopied pages of the regimental history of the 8th GR and his death gets mentioned but does not indicate which company. I afraid if the war diary did not say you will not know - the unit war diary was the primary record for the battalion. How much of it did you get copied? If you have a few pages it might mention him being posted between companies.

As it happens a man I am interested in was wounded around the same time - Captain Molesworth - do your pages list him at all?

I hope that helps

Matthew

Matthew I have the war diary from 01 Apr - 20 May 1915. Molesworth is listed as taking 7 days leave from 1st April.

[Matthew B.]

Matthew I have the war diary from 01 Apr - 20 May 1915. Molesworth is listed as taking 7 days leave from 1st April.

Thanks for this. I am mystfied at no mention of wounding - the regimental history makes it clear he was one of the B.O.'s wounded in the 9th to 19th May period. How odd

Matthew.

[Dorset]

Thanks for this. I am mystfied at no mention of wounding - the regimental history makes it clear he was one of the B.O.'s wounded in the 9th to 19th May period. How odd

Matthew.

I found it:

[Matthew B.]

I found it:

Thanks very much for this - another bit of detail. In his case it was not too serious - he got married on the 26th July 1915.

Cheers

Matthew