Looking for a Clasp (Jack) Knife

[Wingdk]

Can anyone help me? I am looking for an original issue clasp knife in reasonable to good condition. I have been monitoring the dreaded Eb*y but without luck.

[squirrel]

So have I - would also like a Hudson whistle dated 1915 if poss but the prices on that site seem to be a bit on the high side to say the least.

[GRANVILLE]

Likewise. You'll look forever on eBay - they declined to sell certain knives (including clasp knives) some time ago. I've been after one for most of this year without any success and despite similar appeals on this and another Forum. They are out there; you just need to be in the right place at the right time. Happy hunting.

Dave Upton

[auchonvillerssomme]

So have I - would also like a Hudson whistle dated 1915 if poss but the prices on that site seem to be a bit on the high side to say the least.

Why specifically 1915? They are the hardest ones to find for the war years.

Mick

[squirrel]

First year abroad for the battalion in which I have an interest.

[calibre792x57.y]

You can often find WW1 jack knives at Militaria Fairs if you look at the stalls selling bayonets etc. Mine has I.XL and G.Wostenholm, Sheffield on the ricasso of the main blade, and a Broad Arrow W.D. stamp on the rope spike. It came from a box of twenty assorted and cost me £3. The blade holds a very keen edge and is in everyday use.

[wainfleet]

Here's one in France:

http://cgi.ebay.fr/COUTEAU-DE-POCHE-ANGLAI...=item20aeae9a18

[steenie]

GRANVILLE said:

Likewise. You'll look forever on eBay - they declined to sell certain knives (including clasp knives) some time ago. I've been after one for most of this year without any success and despite similar appeals on this and another Forum. They are out there; you just need to be in the right place at the right time. Happy hunting.

Dave Upton

This is not the situation with regard to ebay. I bought mine from there and here is a link to a 1940.

[Broken link removed]

Lots of them

[mark holden]

They can be found on ebay UK but only if the ebay STASI have not been tipped off. Ebay UK forbade he selling of most military knives last year-most sellers are now international! Militaria FAIRS and good Flea markets/car boots are still a good source.

This is not the situation with regard to ebay. I bought mine from there and here is a link to a 1940.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WW2-BRITISH-ARMY-194...=item53ded1ecb3

Lots of them

[Ghost]

The "rope spike" is a correctly called a "pick", for cleaning horses hooves or hoofs. A marline spike is used for rope work and is a straight taper being of either wood or steel material, with a flat head to hit with a mallet.

Alan

[Andrew Upton]

The "rope spike" is a correctly called a "pick", for cleaning horses hooves or hoofs. A marline spike is used for rope work and is a straight taper being of either wood or steel material, with a flat head to hit with a mallet.

Alan

The rope spike is a rope/marlin spike, it's far too sharp to be used safely on horses hooves (I've seen accounts of them being ground down to enable them to be used as such), but is absolutely perfect for unpicking knots as-is.

[Wingdk]

Knife now gone to a new home.

Shame! I will have to get better at checking my topics, because I would have given yours a good home, has anyone else got one for sale?

[stephen p nunn]

Yesterday I picked up what I think could be quite an unusual GW pocket knife. It was made by the Camillus Cutlery Co. of New York. The grips are of jigged bone. The date stamped on the tang is 1915. On the marlin spike is the Canadian acceptance mark. According to Ron Flook in his 'British Commonwealth Military Knives' this type was procured for the Canadian Forces from non-Canadian sources (either American or British). Holding it and thinking about what Peter Doyle says in his fantastic 'Tommy's War' (Crowood 2008) - that it was "...one of the most important pieces of personal kit, used for duties as diverse as trench repair, tin opening and eating....the workhorse of the army" - really does help you touch the past.

Anyone any extra thoughts about this knife please?

Thanks.

SPN

Maldon

[reese williams]

Great find on the Camillus. Of all the variations of the 6353/1905 clasp knife I think the Camillus ones are at the top of the heap in terms of esthetics and workmanship. I am aware of two other American companies that made this model, Schatt & Morgan and Simmons under their Keen-Kutter brand. The Schatt & Morgans I've seen have the Canadian broadarrow as do most of the Camillus. The Keen-Kutter I have is unmarked. I've posted some photos of my British and Commonwealth military knives over on the British Blades forum.

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showth...;highlight=6353 My id there is CHB and the photos are on about the 4th page of the thread.

The 6353/1905 was in use from 1905 to 1938. Originally issued to mounted troops, the description in the List of Changes specifies that the spike is intended as a hoofpick and was to be blunted as required for use as such. Eventually the knife became general issue. In 1939 a smaller knife with a different style of tin opener was introduced. Early models of the 6353/1905 had pressed leather scales, by 1914 horn was substituted. The horn scales range in color from black to almost translucent. It is a great heavy workhorse of a knife made of good steel and holds an edge well. As issued the spike does indeed work well as a rope tool.

[Joe Sweeney]

Reese,

You maybe over using the designation of pattern 6353. Flooks work is good but did not consult the RACD pattern registers which have the details on Clasp knives--Not the LoC. Black Horn was part of the pattern from day 1.

The pattern of knife on issue at the beginning of the war dated back to 1905 with pattern 6353/1905, 2 August 1905. This pattern replaced two patterns then on inventory, 116a/1902 “knives, clasp with marline spike, buffalo handle” and 4563a/1902 “knives, clasp with marline spike, black horn handle”.

The manufacturing instructions issued for pattern 6353 in 1905 describe the “Knife, Clasp with Tin Opener and Marline Spike” as such:

“ 3. The blade and Tin Opener to be made of best cast steel, free from flaws, properly hardened and tempered, and to be as thin and as well ground as the Standard Pattern; the edge of the Blade to be wetted on an oilstone; to be 3 ½ inches long from “kick” point, to be 11/16 inch wide; the Bolster to be ½ inch long, to be solid, and made from the best iron; the “Springs” to be made of best spring steel, properly hardened and tempered. The Marline Spike to be made of cast steel, properly hardened and tempered. Length of Marline Spike when shut to be within 1/8 inch shorter than Spring; and the point, when shut, to be fitted close on the spring to prevent catching in the pocket.

4. The Length of the Handle to be 4 7/8 inches; the Scales to be checkered black horn 4 3/8 inches long Bolster ½ inch; to be riveted to plates with two iron rivets; the Shackle to be made of copper wire, No. 11 gauge, same size and shape as that of the Standard Pattern, and riveted with brass wire. The Blade, Tin Opener, and Marline Spike to be firmly riveted in, and to bear makers name on tangs.”

The above specification description was modified in 1913 by the addition of specific dimensions for the tin opener to be 1 5/8 inches long by 11/16 wide.

Very early in the war alternate patterns of knives were adopted to meet demands. Patterns were approved that introduced the clasp knife with only a tin opener and no marline spike. These patterns were 8171/1914 with Stag horn handle, 8172/1914 with checker black horn handle, and 8173/1914 with bone handle. All of these alternate patterns were declared obsolete on 18 May 1920.

The year 1917 saw a further introduction of a multitude of provisional patterns for clasp knives. Pattern 9401/1917, 26 April 1917, introduced “Knives, Clasp with Tin Opener and Marline Spike with Nickle Scales”. Pattern 9402/1917, 23 April 1917, introduced “Knives, Clasp with Tin Opener and Marline Spike with Fibre Scales”. Pattern 9403/1917, 20 April 1917, introduced “Knives, Clasp with Tin Opener and Fibre Scales”. Pattern 9404/1917, 26 April 1917, introduced “Knives, Clasp with Tin Opener and Steel Scales”. Dimensionally all of these knives adhered to pattern 6353, although material substitution was allowed, i.e. copper wire replaced by steel.

Patterns 9402/1917 and 9403/1917 were modified by patterns 9799/1917 and 9798/1917, respectively, on 12 February 1918. This modification simply specified that the tin opener should be ground bright and sharpened. Patterns 9401/1917 and Pattern 9404/1917 were not modified until patterns 9814/1918 and 9813/1918, respectively, were approved on 10 April 1918. This modification again simply specified that the tin opener should be ground bright and sharpened.

By mid war it was intended that only knives with Marline Spikes went to mounted men and those without Dismounted.

Nice collection on the other forum. I will repost this there.

Joe Sweeney

[stephen p nunn]

Great find on the Camillus. Of all the variations of the 6353/1905 clasp knife I think the Camillus ones are at the top of the heap in terms of esthetics and workmanship. I am aware of two other American companies that made this model, Schatt & Morgan and Simmons under their Keen-Kutter brand. The Schatt & Morgans I've seen have the Canadian broadarrow as do most of the Camillus. The Keen-Kutter I have is unmarked. I've posted some photos of my British and Commonwealth military knives over on the British Blades forum.

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showth...;highlight=6353 My id there is CHB and the photos are on about the 4th page of the thread.

The 6353/1905 was in use from 1905 to 1938. Originally issued to mounted troops, the description in the List of Changes specifies that the spike is intended as a hoofpick and was to be blunted as required for use as such. Eventually the knife became general issue. In 1939 a smaller knife with a different style of tin opener was introduced. Early models of the 6353/1905 had pressed leather scales, by 1914 horn was substituted. The horn scales range in color from black to almost translucent. It is a great heavy workhorse of a knife made of good steel and holds an edge well. As issued the spike does indeed work well as a rope tool.

Many thanks Reese - I was really pleased to get hold of it. It certainly is in good condition and I thought it was a quality piece.

Best regards.

SPN

Maldon

[reese williams]

Joe,

Thanks for the expansion on the various patterns. I knew someone over here would be able to cite chapter and verse.

[Dutchy357]

Reese,

You maybe over using the designation of pattern 6353. Flooks work is good but did not consult the RACD pattern registers which have the details on Clasp knives--Not the LoC. Black Horn was part of the pattern from day 1.

The pattern of knife on issue at the beginning of the war dated back to 1905 with pattern 6353/1905, 2 August 1905. This pattern replaced two patterns then on inventory, 116a/1902 "knives, clasp with marline spike, buffalo handle" and 4563a/1902 "knives, clasp with marline spike, black horn handle".

The manufacturing instructions issued for pattern 6353 in 1905 describe the "Knife, Clasp with Tin Opener and Marline Spike" as such:

" 3. The blade and Tin Opener to be made of best cast steel, free from flaws, properly hardened and tempered, and to be as thin and as well ground as the Standard Pattern; the edge of the Blade to be wetted on an oilstone; to be 3 ½ inches long from "kick" point, to be 11/16 inch wide; the Bolster to be ½ inch long, to be solid, and made from the best iron; the "Springs" to be made of best spring steel, properly hardened and tempered. The Marline Spike to be made of cast steel, properly hardened and tempered. Length of Marline Spike when shut to be within 1/8 inch shorter than Spring; and the point, when shut, to be fitted close on the spring to prevent catching in the pocket.

4. The Length of the Handle to be 4 7/8 inches; the Scales to be checkered black horn 4 3/8 inches long Bolster ½ inch; to be riveted to plates with two iron rivets; the Shackle to be made of copper wire, No. 11 gauge, same size and shape as that of the Standard Pattern, and riveted with brass wire. The Blade, Tin Opener, and Marline Spike to be firmly riveted in, and to bear makers name on tangs."

The above specification description was modified in 1913 by the addition of specific dimensions for the tin opener to be 1 5/8 inches long by 11/16 wide.

Very early in the war alternate patterns of knives were adopted to meet demands. Patterns were approved that introduced the clasp knife with only a tin opener and no marline spike. These patterns were 8171/1914 with Stag horn handle, 8172/1914 with checker black horn handle, and 8173/1914 with bone handle. All of these alternate patterns were declared obsolete on 18 May 1920.

The year 1917 saw a further introduction of a multitude of provisional patterns for clasp knives. Pattern 9401/1917, 26 April 1917, introduced "Knives, Clasp with Tin Opener and Marline Spike with Nickle Scales". Pattern 9402/1917, 23 April 1917, introduced "Knives, Clasp with Tin Opener and Marline Spike with Fibre Scales". Pattern 9403/1917, 20 April 1917, introduced "Knives, Clasp with Tin Opener and Fibre Scales". Pattern 9404/1917, 26 April 1917, introduced "Knives, Clasp with Tin Opener and Steel Scales". Dimensionally all of these knives adhered to pattern 6353, although material substitution was allowed, i.e. copper wire replaced by steel.

Patterns 9402/1917 and 9403/1917 were modified by patterns 9799/1917 and 9798/1917, respectively, on 12 February 1918. This modification simply specified that the tin opener should be ground bright and sharpened. Patterns 9401/1917 and Pattern 9404/1917 were not modified until patterns 9814/1918 and 9813/1918, respectively, were approved on 10 April 1918. This modification again simply specified that the tin opener should be ground bright and sharpened.

By mid war it was intended that only knives with Marline Spikes went to mounted men and those without Dismounted.

Nice collection on the other forum. I will repost this there.

Joe Sweeney

Hi Joe

Very interesting information about the other Brit Clasp Knife patterns. This certainly explains some of the apparent anomolies in clasp knives that differ slightly from the Pattern 6353/1905.

I am very interested in the revelation that clasp knife with blade and tin opener with bone handles is Pattern 8173/1914. This knife is known here in Australia and is found often enough to believe that they came home with the Diggers from WW1.

What I am puzzled about is that none of these clasp knives have any mil markings on them. Were they issue items they would have been expected to be marked.

Have you any thoughts on this?

Regards Dutchy

[keithmroberts]

I have removed some posts including some very old ones. There is only one place on the GWF where items can be offered for sale, and the sale of any form of weaponry has to be considered in the light of UK law.

 

Keith Roberts

[Michelle Young]

Plus members have to have made 50 posts before they can offer items for sale