searching for information on brothers killed in 1916

[cunningham]

This a photograph of my great grandfather John Coutts Poole. He was in the Royal Garrison Artillery 22nd seige battery, number 29297. He was born in 1888 in Rotherithe London and died on the 28th July 1916 at the Somme. The letter is to my great grand mother

His younger brother George William Poole was born in Rotherithe in 1897 and died on the 23rd July 1916 also at the Somme. He was in the Royal Field Artillery number L/15196

It must have been very hard to have 2 sons killed just days apart.

I am struggling to find out any more info about them. I think my ggfather was a regular soldier before the war but his brother must have joined up when war started due to his age. I can not find any info about them on ancestry either. When they joined and where, when they went to France. Also why does George`s number have an L at the beginning?

I would be very grateful for any help.

Thank you

Scotland

[sotonmate]

Scotland

Some info to help you along:

John C Poole born Rotherhithe Surrey, residence Stratford Essex. First landed in France on 5.11.1915.Killed in action 28.7.1916 and buried in Berks Cemetery Extension, Ploegsteert. Not a Somme casualty as he was further north of that area around Armentieres,and south of Ypres. The War Diary for 22 Siege Battery RGA will give you some info on his activity,it is under WO95/323 at the National Archives,Kew.

A note about the stripes on his forearm,it was normally where wound stripes were placed,if that is what they are ( I didn't think they were that large !) he was wounded twice. The other is a gunnery badge.

George W Poole born Rotherhithe Surrey,residence Camberwell. Landed in France after 31 Dec 1915.Died of Wounds on 23.7.1916 at Heilly in one of the three Casualty Clearing Stations resident there at that time (Nos 36;38; and 2/2 London). Buried in Heilly Station Cemetery,Mericourt-L'Abbe. Served in B Battery of 167 Brigade Royal Field Artillery,whose War Diary is at Kew under WO95/2413.

Around this date he was likely to have been involved in the battle for High Wood as part of 33 Division's Artillery resources.

Sotonmate

[grantowi]

Have a look at the LLT (top left on menu bar) - http://www.1914-1918.net/prefixes.html - for the "L" bit.

Grant

[cunningham]

Sotonmate and Grant

Thank you both for your info. I am really grateful for the war diary information at kew as I hope to get to London early in the new year.

Thanks again.

[dundeesown]

Hi Scotland,S.D.G.W.on Ancestry has Johns middle name as Cootes,but you`ll only see the information that Sotonmate has given you,here are their MICs if you don`t have them.

all the best Gary.

GAry

[derekpoole]

Hi there Scotland,

You may already have this info ref your GGrandfather but 'www.findagrave.com' has a picture of his grave,also my G Grandfather Thomas was John and George's brother and my Grandad was named after John as a J C Poole.The middle name 'Coutts' I believe if my memory serves me right is the maiden name of his Grandmother (not sure which side) who was from Scotland and died in her forties,this info can be found in the 10 yearly censuses.

Thank you so much for posting the photos and letter I have been trying to find a photo for years and this has absolutely made my day!

If I find out any other info I will be in touch.

Yours,

A distant cousin

[derekpoole]

Hi Scotland,

I forgot to mention that my brother recently went to Holland and on his way back went to the Berkshire Cemetery Extension and has photos of your GGrandfathers grave and the rest of the cemetery.

If you give me an email address I will send them directly to you.

Regards,

Derek

[Chris_Baker]

The "stripes" are Good Conduct Badges.

[cunningham]

Hi Scotland,

I forgot to mention that my brother recently went to Holland and on his way back went to the Berkshire Cemetery Extension and has photos of your GGrandfathers grave and the rest of the cemetery.

If you give me an email address I will send them directly to you.

Regards,

Derek

Hi PooleDSMD

Thank you for the Info. I did know about the Coutts name, I think she came from Aberdeenshire but not sure which town. My great grandfather John Coutts Poole also had a son named after him although he never saw him as he went to France in Nov 1915 before my grandfather was born and as you know died in July 1916. I would love to see the photos of the cemetry as my aim is also to visit although it will not be for a while, unfortunately. My ggf john married a girl from a small village in Scotland and I would love to know how they met as on their wedding certificate his home address was the army base in Lydd in Kent.I am assuming she was in domestic service in Kent but as yet can not be sure.

My grandfather also used the names "john and Coutts" in his own childrens names and I have a cousin who has kept up the tradition with his children.

I tried to send you a message but for some reason it was blocked. will try again later but just wanted to make sure that you knew i had seen your messages.

thanks again

[cunningham]

hi chris and dundeesown

thank-you for the mic cards and the info about the stripes

scotland

[derekpoole]

Hi PooleDSMD

Thank you for the Info. I did know about the Coutts name, I think she came from Aberdeenshire but not sure which town. My great grandfather John Coutts Poole also had a son named after him although he never saw him as he went to France in Nov 1915 before my grandfather was born and as you know died in July 1916. I would love to see the photos of the cemetry as my aim is also to visit although it will not be for a while, unfortunately. My ggf john married a girl from a small village in Scotland and I would love to know how they met as on their wedding certificate his home address was the army base in Lydd in Kent.I am assuming she was in domestic service in Kent but as yet can not be sure.

My grandfather also used the names "john and Coutts" in his own childrens names and I have a cousin who has kept up the tradition with his children.

I tried to send you a message but for some reason it was blocked. will try again later but just wanted to make sure that you knew i had seen your messages.

thanks again

Hi scotland,

thanks for your reply,dont know if this will get to you(I find this forum quite confusing) but I can send those photos to you soon as you like,please don't ask me to post them on this forum as that could take months!! Send me your email and I will send them.

With your forum name of Scotland I'm guessing that is maybe where you live? Did your GGMother move back to Scotland? Amazing how people move around!! I'm in Hastings,East Sussex though was born and raised in South London.

Take Care,

Derek

[ororkep]

Hello Scotland,

22 SB RGA; a battery of 2 x 12 in Hows on road mountings. On the 28-7-1916 the No 2 battery gun was positioned in Ploegstreert Wood, with orders to fire via Aeroplane registration. The war diary records:

“On the 6th round the gun was blown to pieces by a premature explosion. The following casualties occurred:-

Killed 1 Sgt, 1 Bdr, 1 Gnr. Died of wounds 2 Gunners. Wounded 1 AOC St/Sgt and 5 Gunners RGA. The Officer Lt Davies and 11 other Gunners were admitted to hospital suffering from shock.”

The HAG diary they were part of at the time adds some extra detail not found in the official war diary. This was 11 HAG (WO95/539).

“….at about 2.30 pm, during an aeroplane registration shoot on RE dump at Comines, the forward gun of 22 SB was blown up by a shell bursting prematurely in the bore. It is thought that the premature was caused by a piece of the driving band of the previous round stripped off by a small piece of mill in the bore. The casualties to personnel amounted to 3 killed and 8 wounded. Two of the wounded died later. The remainder of the detachment including Lt Davies, the action officer, were badly shaken but received no serious injuries…..”

A few weeks later both guns were condemned by the IOM, and completely replaced by two new railway mounted Howitzers. The casualties recorded as killed and DoW appear to have been:

Poole 29297 Killed

Stockley 41122 Killed

Woodyer 24078 Killed

Roper 39309 DoW the next day

And 11 days later Halligan 55103 DoW.

A very sad incident

Rgds Paul

[kevinrowlinson]

You are correct in thinking that Gnr. J C Poole was a pre-war regular. His 29297 number would indicate someone enlisting August 1908, and probably being sent to Dover for his first Depot.

Kevin

[cunningham]

Hi Paul

thank you for all your help. Not at all what I was expecting- such a waste (as indeed all lives lost are) but too loose your life to equipment malfunction seems worse.

I was wondering -as you have managed to find out so much about this incident- do you also have a connection with any of the others killed or wounded? Sorry if i am being a bit forward.

Thank you again

Maureen