Deserted from the Army

[karsus]

I am new to this and not sure if I am posting in the right place ..... I am trying to find out what happened to my grandfathers brother Lionel P Sayer(S) he was with the East Sussex Reg during WWI In 1919 he deserted the army and his family. I have located him on several ships as seaman up till 1932 then he disappears Is there any record of deserters being located after a certain amount of time ? Or could he have just spent his life on the run . Lionel added a s on the end of the surname used the names Lionel Percy Robson Sayers Lenonard Sayers and Lenonard Sawyers

Any direction would be appreciated

Karen

[sotonmate]

Karen

There is a soldier with this name in the Medal Index Cards on Ancestry UK:

Lionel P Sayers Private G3/10563 East Sussex Regt,and later,

Sergeant 293035 Royal Field Artillery.

The card states that he was entitled to three campaign medals which included the 1914-15 Star when he landed in France on 31.12 1915,the last day he would have been entitled to it ! It also says "deserted 20.9.1919 and still a deserter" but I know not when this was written, possibly 1921 or thereabouts,which is when the Victory and British War Medals were processed for issue.

Sotonmate

[karsus]

I would take it that he would not have been given the medals as he deserted the Army before they were issued?

He was in Ireland in 1918 In 1919 he was in Scotland and in 1920 Then he is on the run Lead a colourful life as far as I can tell married twice with ot a divorce /changes his name / and is found at sea till 1932

Thanks for replying some day I will find out where he went to and died

Karen

Karen

There is a soldier with this name in the Medal Index Cards on Ancestry UK:

Lionel P Sayers Private G3/10563 East Sussex Regt,and later,

Sergeant 293035 Royal Field Artillery.

The card states that he was entitled to three campaign medals which included the 1914-15 Star when he landed in France on 31.12 1915,the last day he would have been entitled to it ! It also says "deserted 20.9.1919 and still a deserter" but I know not when this was written, possibly 1921 or thereabouts,which is when the Victory and British War Medals were processed for issue.

Sotonmate

[corisande]

With so many permutations on aliases it is difficult to find him. I think this could be he.

Name: Lionel Percy Sayer

Year of Registration: 1893

Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar

District: Cardiff (1837-1974)

County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire

Volume: 11a

I tried to find him in censuses and found that someone has a story about him on Ancestry

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/pt/RequestTree...pid=-1445996941

It is (I find these things annoying) a "private record" you need to contact them

Assuming that record is not yours, then someone out there has a story about him entitle "desertion records" for this chap, Born: 1893 in St. Andrews Rsd Cardiff

You cn get him in census and presumably his marraige in Free BMD

[karsus]

I know the owner of the tree they have no more information than I have actually all they have is what I gave them .. it is a grandchild of Lionel

His alias do not vary to much from his own name This is what i found he has used Lionel Percy Sayers

Lionel Percy Robson Sayers Leonard Sayers and Leonard Sawyers

His marriage took place in Ireland for the first and second one in Scotland

On a ship in 1930 and 1932 Both went to America and he came back on them one to Liverpool and one to Wales

Thank you for your time

With so many permutations on aliases it is difficult to find him. I think this could be he.

Name: Lionel Percy Sayer

Year of Registration: 1893

Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar

District: Cardiff (1837-1974)

County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire

Volume: 11a

I tried to find him in censuses and found that someone has a story about him on Ancestry

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/pt/RequestTree...pid=-1445996941

It is (I find these things annoying) a "private record" you need to contact them

Assuming that record is not yours, then someone out there has a story about him entitle "desertion records" for this chap, Born: 1893 in St. Andrews Rsd Cardiff

You cn get him in census and presumably his marraige in Free BMD

[sotonmate]

karsus

The original Medal Roll will show what happened to the British War and Victory medals. It will be at Kew under WO329/187,page 45709, and there will be a notation as to disposal. I would think that he would have been issued with the 1914-15 Star whilst still in service.

Sotonmate

[karsus]

Thank you I will check in to it

karsus

The original Medal Roll will show what happened to the British War and Victory medals. It will be at Kew under WO329/187,page 45709, and there will be a notation as to disposal. I would think that he would have been issued with the 1914-15 Star whilst still in service.

Sotonmate

[SteveE]

There is a soldier with this name in the Medal Index Cards on Ancestry UK:

Lionel P Sayers Private G3/10563 East Sussex Regt

Karen

Two minor points. Firstly the Ancestry transcription of the Regiment is wrong, it shoud read East Surrey Regt. and not East Sussex, there was no East Sussex Regt. The second point is his number, although the card does appear to say G3/10563 I suspect it should be GS/10563 which would indicate he enlisted for "General Service" i.e. for the duration of the war only.

Regards

Steve

[karsus]

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you.

So when it says enlisted for General service he was free to leave after the war? Then why would he be listed as a deserter in the 1920's?

I have located what I think is him as a seaman going back and forth to the USA but I am not definate this is him

<!--quoteo(post=1321022:date=Dec 10 2009, 05:22 PM:name=sotonmate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sotonmate @ Dec 10 2009, 05:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1321022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is a soldier with this name in the Medal Index Cards on Ancestry UK:

Lionel P Sayers Private G3/10563 East Sussex Regt<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Karen

Two minor points. Firstly the Ancestry transcription of the Regiment is wrong, it shoud read East Surrey Regt. and not East Sussex, there was no East Sussex Regt. The second point is his number, although the card does appear to say G3/10563 I suspect it should be GS/10563 which would indicate he enlisted for "General Service" i.e. for the duration of the war only.

Regards

Steve

[roughdiamond]

Is there any record of deserters being located after a certain amount of time ? Or could he have just spent his life on the run .

Karen

Karen

In answer to your question, I found that my Grandfather had Deserted and this was marked on his Medal Roll, on his Medal Card it stated his Medals had been "returned". There was then a reference which led to another Medal Roll which showed they'd been re-issued in 1926, so in the intervening period, something changed.

In addition my Grandparents Married in 1924, not the act of a Man with a lengthy prison sentence hanging over him.

I wrote to the Imperial War Museum to inquire if there had been some kind of general pardon for Deserter's as I've read other instance's on here of Deserters Medals being re-issued but as of yet I've had no reply.

Sam

[karsus]

[

Thank you maybe i will try the Imperial War Museum also I ust do not knwo where to turn to be able to find him Maybe I never will

Thanks you to every one that as assisted

Karen

quote name=roughdiamond' timestamp='1286302570' post='1483222]

Karen

In answer to your question, I found that my Grandfather had Deserted and this was marked on his Medal Roll, on his Medal Card it stated his Medals had been "returned". There was then a reference which led to another Medal Roll which showed they'd been re-issued in 1926, so in the intervening period, something changed.

In addition my Grandparents Married in 1924, not the act of a Man with a lengthy prison sentence hanging over him.

I wrote to the Imperial War Museum to inquire if there had been some kind of general pardon for Deserter's as I've read other instance's on here of Deserters Medals being re-issued but as of yet I've had no reply.

Sam

[Chris_Baker]

So when it says enlisted for General service he was free to leave after the war?

No, he was not. He would leave when he was formally discharged from his term of engagement. If he disappaered before this took place, he was in trouble.