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Remembered Today:

HMAS AE1


melliget

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Does anyone know if any further searches for the RAN submarine AE1 are planned or in the pipeline? There was a flurry of activity in 2007 when they thought they had found it but disappointingly it turned out to be an E Class rock formation. There was an expedition in April this year but I can't find any recent announcements by the government. It would be great if it could be found before the centenary anniversary of its loss in 2014.

Some links that might be of interest:

The brief history on the RAN site.

http://www.navy.gov.au/HMAS_AE1

Peter Richardson's excellent site.

http://www.ae1submarine.com/

This April 2009 article by Executive Manager of the Submarine Institute of Australia (SIA), David Nichols (former submarine commanding officer), is very interesting. Also talks about the Centenary of Submarines Project.

http://www.vision6.com.au/download/files/2...0Submarines.pdf

Just one of the docs on NAA (there are others) - Loss of Submarine AE1 (68 pages).

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.as...mp;I=1&SE=1

Martin

p.s. Darren / Sadsac. Some mention of the J's in that second last link (the pdf).

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I found photos of eleven of the AE1 crew in The Argus (Melbourne), 22/23 September 1914, and will post here. Six Australians, four English and one Scot (living in Victoria).

Stoker 1st Cl. John James BRAY, RAN

Born 5 May 1891, Eaglehawk, VIC.

post-29417-1260283552.jpg

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Able Seaman Jack JARMAN, RAN

Born 11 Jun 1893, Dookie, VIC.

Under "Marks, Wounds and Scars" on RAN service card:

Tattooed; r. arm. Nellie over

clasped hands. 3 horseshoes

Heart & Cross, Ship in wreath

L. arm. full rigged ship.

shield & heart, floral de-

sign on L. hand. One vac'n

mark L. arm.

post-29417-1260283978.jpg

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Acting Chief Engine Room Artificer Thomas Fredrick LOWE, RN (lent to RAN)

Born 3 Dec 1875, Leicester, England.

post-29417-1260284521.jpg

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Chief Stoker Harry STRETCH, RN (lent to RAN)

Born 7 Nov 1875 in Porchester, Hampshire.

The medals worn may be the China Medal (1900) and Good Conduct Medal (recd. 28 Jan 1910).

post-29417-1260285220.jpg

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Chief Engine Room Artificer 2nd Cl. Joseph William WILSON, RN (lent to RAN)

Born 11 Oct 1879, Portsmouth, Hampshire.

post-29417-1260285465.jpg

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The Argus (Melbourne), Thursday, 3 July 1919, p.4

SEARCH FOR SUBMARINE AE1

SYDNEY. Wednesday. - H.M.A.S. Suva

left port to-day for Brisbane. It has been

stated that the vessel carries a survey party,

and that an attempt may be made to locate

submarine AE1, which disappeared off New

Guinea early in the war.

This may have been hearsay turned into a newspaper story but does anyone know of a 1919 attempt to locate the AE1? There are a couple of NAA records about the right vintage.

Martin

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MARTIN, only just seen this very interesting Thread of yours. Will return later for more `lookings'.

Just one query / anomolly - you have John J MOLONEY - I have in my records mAloney / MALONEY.

Can we ascertain as to which is the CORRECT spelling. I know that some times there can be two spellings as in those days name spelling could be spelt wrong, sometimes depending on the `taker down'.

The Register of Names have him & HIS MOTHER as MALONEY.

The pic you have printed has MOLONEY can we `sort out' how come ????

Sadsac

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Hi Sadsac.

A common mix-up, those two names, I think. I have a friend who is Moloney and is just a tad touchy about her name being spelt Maloney. I imagine Maloneys are probably the same.

CWGC and RAN service record both have MOLONEY, so I believe this to be correct (the RAN were usually pretty good on names):

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=3045188

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.as...mp;I=1&SE=1

I noticed that The Times had Maloney, though they didn't seem altogether sure about the RAN names (question marks after some).

Btw, their places of birth given in their RAN service cards are summarised as follows:

England - 20

Australia - 10

Scotland - 2

Ireland - 1

New Zealand - 1

Guernsey - 1

regards,

Martin

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The following report appeared in the Adelaide Advertiser the day after AE1 and AE2 first arrived in Sydney. The newspaper print is a little faded, particularly at the start, but I think I've correctly transcribed the words. Interesting to hear Captain Besant talk about his boat.

Mon, 25 May 1914, The Advertiser (Adelaide)

DEFENCE

THE SUBMARINES

ARRIVAL IN SYDNEY

Sydney, May 24.

The two submarines arrived at about 6 o'clock this morning and came in without any display. In fact, very few people were about at that hour. Such boats, however, do no lend themselves to display, as only a conning tower and long, narrow ridge is in sight from the shore.

When the submarines had moored, there was practically nothing visible of them but three flags moving not very far above water-line. The people who stared at them had little to go upon but their imaginations. Even as one rowed closer there was very little to be made out, just a flag and conning tower, and a long, thin ridge of deck like the ridge along a whale's back. At the water's edge the hulls of these uncanny craft began to bulge, wet, shining, black. In fact, their submerged hulls are a great deal bigger than one would have guessed. Each craft measures 176 ft. by 22 ½ ft. Their 1,600 horsepower Diesel oil engines can drive them at 16 knots along the surface, and their electric motors can give them 10 or 12 knots below water level. They are armed with four torpedo tubes and guns on disappearing mountings, and they are within their scope of action a pair of the most dangerous craft afloat. It is true, however, that some of the danger attaches to their own crews. The submarines had fine weather for their voyage, though there were a few rough intervals.

"We had a bit of a blow in the Bay of Biscay," said Captain Besant. "It was very unpleasant for the first day. Off the north coast of Australia we had nearly perfect weather, though it was a little bit choppy. Going through Torres Straits Thursday and Friday were rough, and it is what kept us late, though yesterday was smooth enough. We anchored in Moreton Bay on Thursday night, and started off again on Friday morning. We had had three or four nights at sea, and the captain of the Sydney thought we had better have a rest. It's pretty hard on the engine-room rating, you know, and everybody else, too, for that matter."

Captain Besant says both submarines are very good sea boats and, in spite of their low-lying, squat appearance, no water comes over the bridge unless the weather is uncommonly rough. "We had no serious trouble with the engines at all," he said. "The A1 dropped a blade from one of her propellers before we reached Gibraltar and we shipped a new propeller there, but it was the only exception. The engines are as good now as when we started. That is as far as we can tell. Of course, after a long trip like that it is as well to open up the engines and see that all is right, and that's what we're going to do. The boats are generally docked every six months and examined all over, and they were last docked in December, so we should be docking them now in any case."

According to Captain Besant, life on board a submarine is not so bad, though he admits to a little monotony. Also there is a difficulty that, since each submarine contains only two officers, they must keep watch and watch, four hours on and four hours off alternately, day and night through. This is pretty tiring. There are books and things, and the men play draughts and a couple of them have concertinas. The two officers in each boat have their bunks and the men can sling their hammocks."

"There is more room below than you would think," said the captain. "Yes: we can sleep on deck when the weather is fine, but it is has to be smooth for that. Our cooking arrangements are good. There are electric ovens, and the men can cook with them in the ordinary way. Excellent ovens they are, too, and there are urns for heating water and hot plates for grilling on, and so on. It's all quite satisfactory. The men live very well. As for air, we just breathe what there is in the boat. That would keep us going for 24 hours at a time if we were underneath so long. Of course it would get a bit stuffy by that time. If there was an accident and we sank down to the bottom it would be possible to freshen things a bit by exhausting some of the air in the boat and then using some of the compressed air in the air flasks, which is used for blowing water out of the ballast tanks when we want to rise to the surface."

"We have had no trouble with the men at all. They have been very good-tempered indeed, though I must admit before we started I felt a little doubtful about the effect of that long submarine trip. We have been a very happy ship's company. Our men are a very good lot. They are picked men. A good number of them are Australians. The Australians seem to be rather better educated than some of our men, and there has been no difficulty as to discipline, none at all. Yes, I have heard a statement that used to be made about Australians not taking to discipline, but in my experience it is not correct. They have sense enough to see how necessary it is." Visitors were not allowed on the boats.

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Wonder if someone can clarify this for me. A search of the NAA for AE1 returns 26 items. One of them is:

[Records of HMA Naval Establishments, Sydney] Submarine AE1 - [stoker G Hughes]

Barcode 8749256, series AWM50, control symbol 18/1 PART 3.

There are similar items for the AE1 crew known to have died. Stoker George Hughes died over 2 months after the AE1 was lost, 24/11/1914, at Garden Island, Sydney (buried Rookwood). The AWM Roll of Honour has him as belonging to AE2. Unfortunately his RAN record doesn't say AE1 or AE2:

Submarines 28/02/1914 to 24/05/1914 and after that Penguin (Sydney).

Can anyone clarify if he was AE1, AE2 or perhaps served on both?

AWM ROH:

http://www.awm.gov.au/research/people/roll_of_honour/person.asp?p=566625

RAN service:

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.asp?B=4544175&I=1&SE=1

CWGC:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2745232

Note: The official number given on his CWGC entry is incorrect. They have 1566, it was actually 7531. 1566 belonged to John Edwin Sutherns, rank Cooper, HMAS Tingira, who died in Sydney 25/09/1914.

Martin

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MARTIN, find here what I have on Stoker Hughes. You will see that I have him foe AE" & that he was a POW in Turkey. I believe that he returned to Australia after being freed and died there possibly of injuries / treatment received whilst POW.

The dates on Record are in reverse order ; 130105 = 5th January 1913.

HUGHES GEORGE STO RAN 7531 NE RAN

D.o.B ; 120381 RNSM

130105 LONDON

130118 DEPOT

140228 SUBMARINES

140525 PENGUIN

GARDEN ISLAND ROCKWOOD NECROPOLIS SYDNEYMRS A HUGHES 71 LENNARD ST, BELFAST

LOST AE.2 241114

Sadsac

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Sadsac,

The Diary of Able Seaman 7893 Albert Edward Knaggs R.A.N. who sered on the AE2 has an entry which mentions the death of George Hughes.

Nov 21st inst proceeded into dry dock at Cockatoo Island for slight overhaul of underwater fittings and came out of dock 23rd inst and proceeded alongside Garden Island and completed for Sea.

During our stay in Sydney this time our store Keeper G. Hughes died of Alcoholic poisoning.

As George Hughes died in 1914 there is he couldn't have been on AE2 when they became POW's in Turkey in 1915

Stu

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Stuart, you are of course correct. The `extra' entry re Hughes being POW probably came about from an entry on card by `someone' who assumed that he had been POW & in a `brain dead period' I just copied that down. ONE (I hope) entry mistake in 5,600 !!!

Thanks for pointing it out & the info from Knaggs diary - now will uprate my file.

Regards

Sadsac

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