WW1 cemetery bombed in WW2

[Signalmet]

Here is an interesting real photo postcard of a WW1 cemetery. There is no text, message or stamp on the postcard so I have no idea where it is.

It is an aerial photo of a village with what appears to be a WW1 cemetery (notice the regular spacing of the markers and the center monument) next to a church cemetery. There are bomb craters in the scene indicating this photo was taken during WW2. There are also 2 buildings with red crosses painted on their roofs in the top center of the photo.

Anybody know where this is?

Paul

[Moston]

Not utterly convinced it is a Commonwealth Cemetery - could be a large civilian cemetery supported by it's proximity to the church.

The central 'thing' doesn't look like a cross of sacrifice - more like a 'block' or morsileum (spelling?)

The absence of a cross of sacrifice & stone of remembrance suggests civilian to me.

[chrissparrow]

Does look incredibly regular for a civilian cemetery, especially in France. There also seem to be none of the large tombs so popular at that time in France.

Chris

[hillgorilla]

Could it be Zonnebeke during WW1 before the 3rd Battle of Ypres?

[SteveMarsdin]

Good morning All It does look a bit like the present day church and street layout, although the cemetery area appears now to have many trees:

http://www.zonnebeke.be/en/toerisme/vanuitDeLucht.htm

[coppertales]

The churches seem to be similar but in the newer photo, a bunch of the graves seem to have been moved somewhere else if it is the same church.....chris3

[old-ted]

Here's a picture from Google Earth. Is it the same place?

[Peter B]

I do not think it is the same picture as google earth.

In the original the transepts have a gabel roof joining the ridge of the nave, unlike the pitched roof in the moden photo.

In the original photo the bell tower apears to be central with the ridge, not offset as in the google picture.

Regards

Peter

[tim_oz]

Im pretty sure its not Zonnebeke as the roads don't match and the church is also very different in layout from either the pre or post war ones. As well there was no cemetery attached it the church prior to the war it was further out of town see the attached map from 1917 and a post war CWGC cemetery makes no sense given the proximity of Tyne Cot. Finally the lake is missing.

Without a date its hard to place it as the bomb craters could equally be shell holes, but I do agree with Moston something about it does not look like a CWGC cemetery. Interesting photo none the less.

Tim B

[SteveMarsdin]

Good morning All,

As Tim's map is from 1917 that's Zonnebeke out of the running ! There's a lot of information in the original photo-post, we should be able to crack it ?!?

[stevem49]

Looks like 'tombs' laid out to me and not headstones. I doubt it is a CWGC cemetery. It could also be in any country - France , Belgium, Germany etc.

Steve M

[Rayessex]

Looks like quite a large river on the newer picture, running along the bottom. No sign of a river in the older picture.

[spof]

I know hospitals etc in Amiens laid out sheets with a red cross on them post 6th June 1944 when the town got heavily bombed because the breakout from the beaches didn't happen fast enough. Could it be Amiens, Abbeville, Rouen etc?

It's certainly not Amiens cathedral, Abbeville church was not on a bent road when I was last there about 5 years ago. I can't comment on Rouen except to say it was in an almost siege situation in 1944 and the Allies shelled and bombed it a lot so if this photo was there, it would possibly be before 6th June 44.

The quality and "look" of the photo to me makes me think it was taken in 1914-18. I'm no expert but have had the chance to compare the 2 time periods.

Glen

[Paul Reed]

The architecture looks more like the Ardennes to me. It certainly isn't Zonnebeke.

[hillgorilla]

It might be Houlthulst German Cemetery, the large square bloc, may be the 46th Reserve Division memorial. See this link -

http://www.flanderland.de/cemeteries-fried...erman-cemetery/

[Stephen Nulty]

All the reference points in the first picture of Malte's appear to correspond exactly with those in the original picture, but the church in Malte's third picture seems quite different.

[SteveMarsdin]

Good morning All,

Houthulst looks good ! (Malte's photos om the previous link). The Church was destroyed in the war:

http://urbanus.cevi.be/houthulst/portals/c...rochure-web.pdf

Which would explain Stephen's third photo query.

This extra reference to the "flanderland" site:

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...DN%26start%3D72

Includes images that correlate to the surrounding buildings, including the church in a damaged state. I am convinced it is Houthulst

[Paul Reed]

I think some people are getting confused here; the photo at top is from WW2, not WW1. Houthholst was destroyed in the Great War, but not in 1940. The design of the church on the photo and the one at Houthulst is not the same. I still think this is probably the Ardennes.

[SteveMarsdin]

Good evening Paul,

I would agree if it is a WW2 photo but if it is a WW1 photo it would make more sense:

In Malte's photos in the second link on my previous post:

1) The church looks identical to the one in the photo in post 1, which was later destroyed.

2) The angles, size and type of buildings in the first Dec 17 photo and Dec 20 photo seem to coorespond to those in the photo in post 1 (top left of photo on the corner, the house at an angle, the houses towards the church with "dorma" type windows (excuse the description) and the large building running perpendicular to the road, to its right.

If its definitely WW2 then its all coincidental !

[Heid the Ba]

I thought the OP assumed it must be WW2, based on the shell/bomb craters and it being a CWGC cemetery. If it isn't a CWGC cemetery is doesn't have to be WW2.