Gueudecourt 5 Nov 1916

[bobshaw]

Hi,

Can any one enlighten me: on the 5th Nov 1916 it appears that the 1st Bn AIF were fighting just north of Gueudecourt, there was a loss of quite a number of them. Most of the names are commemorated at VILLERS-BRETONNEUX MEMORIAL which is some 20 miles away.

Shown on the Service Records of most of these men is that they were listed as "Missing", then after a Court of Enguiry in 1917 it seems they were declared as killed in action and the comment was added in red : "Buried about 450 yards N.N.W. of Gueudecourt, Sheet 57c S.W. N.20 D.3.7."

Looking this up on a Trench Map it is very close to "Bayonet Trench" where others are mentioned as being buried.

If you look at an image from Google Earth, at roughly these co-ordinations in the middle of an empty field there appears to be some sort of construction - CWGC are not aware of any memorial.

Can any one please help?

Bob

[egbert]

I have been exactly on this spot by myself -there is nothing but fields, no such thing as a memorial or remnants of

[philtaylor]

This is the burial place on Google, whereabouts is the structure?

[Crunchy]

I was there last September and as Egbert says there is nothing but fields. No signs of a memorial or structure.

Cheers

Chris

[bobshaw]

Hi Egbert,

Thanks for the very prompt reply to my query, the two photographs that are in question are attached and the one shows that there is some thing in the field almost on the map coordinates that were given in the Service Records.

Kind regards.

Bob

I have been exactly on this spot by myself -there is nothing but fields, no such thing as a memorial or remnants of

[bobshaw]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for your reply, and I think your map coordinates are quite acurate as the object is slightly to the NNW of your pointer. I have sent the photos to Egbert's reply so hope you can also pick them up.

Kind regards.

Bob

This is the burial place on Google, whereabouts is the structure?

[bobshaw]

Hi Crunchy,

I have had some good replys to my query, and it seems you are all in agreement that there is nothing in the field. I have sent the photographs to the forum showing what I can see, I did think is may have been a lone tree but then there is a glint of white which might indicate that it is made of brick?

Kind regards

Bob

I was there last September and as Egbert says there is nothing but fields. No signs of a memorial or structure.

Cheers

Chris

[egbert]

To be on the safe side - I have crossreferenced the spot with another map provider and there is indeed ---- nothing as you can see

[egbert]

Looking again on goggle it could very well be a tractor hanger parked on the fields

[bobshaw]

To be on the safe side - I have crossreferenced the spot with another map provider and there is indeed ---- nothing as you can see

Hi Egbert,

Thanks for your time, it must be me, spots on my glasses - seems strange that something is one photograph and casting a shadow, yet not in the one you sent.

Maybe it was some one in the field when the photograph was taken, but comparing it with the width of the road they must have been tall!

All the best.

Bob

[trenchtrotter]

Nothing there last week when over there. Nor in March. Walked the area intensely.

TT

[bobshaw]

Nothing there last week when over there. Nor in March. Walked the area intensely.

TT

Hi Trenchtrotter,

I doubt if we can get more up date than this, which does seem to confirm what the other "Old sweats" have said - there is nothing there.

I was interested in the reply Egbert sent in that he cross referenced the site with another map provider, and again nothing was showing, I tried yet another one "MapQuest/Bling" and that object was shown, unfortunately their definition is not as good as Google Earth but it certainly looks the same.

It seems incredible that there were so many men buried at the same coordinates yet the only mention of them are on Plaques in other Cemeteries suggesting there was no known grave.

Kind regards to you and everyone who have replied to my query.................Bob

[thomasR]

Hi Shawrybob,

I have been researching November 5th 1916 and the 1st battalion as my Great-Grandfather was one of the 73 that died from that battalion during the battle and is one of the 36 1st battalion soldiers as having an unknown grave. During the November 5th battle 330 + Australian soldiers were killed.

I have found out that all were buried in early March 1917 (after laying out on the field). They were buried where they lay basically. According to eye witness statements there was one cross erected in the middle with 50 names written on it. There were about 20 that were moved to create the battlefield cemetery known as 'Bayonet Trench Cemetery'.

After the war a search was made of the area and it was stated that there was no obvious signs of graves. A couple of years later two 1st battalion soldiers were found and reburied.

Do you have any link with the soldiers killed Nov 5th 1916?

By the way there is no memorial near their death/original burial. I am hoping to have something placed there but will have to pay for it myself and try and work the system in France to make it happen.

If you would like to know more about the 1st battalion soldiers or the November 5th 1916 battle I have created a website and am slowly putting all the information I have found onto it.

thomasR

http://www.november5th1916.350.com

[UKAIF]

Just to update - on 5th November 2016 there will be a small group meeting at Gueudecourt at 11.00 to commemorate the 1st Bde and 7th Bde attacks 100 years ago.

 

I have also walked these battlefield going back 25+ years and there is nothing I can recall to mark the spot. Ironically, it was 1st Btn AIF that was involved in search for remains when the Germans pulled back but after months in the fields little would have remained of the 'missing'.