10th Battalion Duke of Wellington's (West Riding) Regt

[cox1083]

Gents,

My relative served with the above. Can anyone tell me what sort of Battalion they were, and what they were doing up to 20 Sept 1917, the date my relative was killed. ( Henry Cox, No. 269057)

[sotonmate]

MJ

Infantry with 69 Brigade of 23 Division. Battle of the Menin Road 20-25 Sept 1917. See this:

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battl...road_ridge.html

Your subject would have been killed either prior to the first attack,or during it. A lively time for artillery duels etc.

Sotonmate

[Old Owl]

Gents,

My relative served with the above. Can anyone tell me what sort of Battalion they were, and what they were doing up to 20 Sept 1917, the date my relative was killed. ( Henry Cox, No. 269057)

Hi Michael J,

My Grandfather served with the 10th Bn The Dukes, he enlisted on the 20th September, 1914, aged 15. They were a service battalion and were employed as infantry as opposed to pioneers. I still have my grandfather's arm band 'Kitcheners Man' so I guess that it must have been a 'New Army' battalion? and his 1914/15 Star Trio, badges, etc.,

The 10th fought on the Somme and shared with others of the 69th Brigade, the honour of capturing Contalmaison on July 10th, 1916.

They were also heavily involved in the attack at Munster Alley on August 29th, 1916 and again on September 20th, 1917, were in at the capture of Hill 60, where they particularly distinguished themselves.

My Grandfather was in the signal section when he joined and I have a fine framed group photo taken at Bramshott in August, 1915, of the signal section(26 men) including their officer Sec.Lt. R.C.Perks who went on to win the D.S.O. at Munster Alley in 1916 and was later killed in action in Italy on 27th October, 1918. Sadly the group is not named, but I obviously recognise my Grandfather and also Capt Perks from other sources.

I hope that this fills a few gaps.

Best wishes, Robert

[Hambo]

I am researching Lieutenant George Heale MC of the above battalion and have quite a lot on him except how he came to reiceve the wounds from which he died on the the 3rd of May 1917.

Is there a regimental/battalion history or even better a war diary which may carry mention of his wounding or what the battaion was engaged in in the few days leading up to the 3rd of May?

If anyone could point me in the right direction I would be very grateful

Many thanks John

[imd6662]

Hmmm.. are you sure about this?

In April/May 1917 the 10th Dukes were mostly in training for the assualt on Messines in June.

I have the war diary for this battalion for their time in France (part of 23 Div 69 Bde wd's from DocumentsOnline). The only officer casualty sustained in May 1917 was 2/Lt B.O. Hunt, died of wounds on or about 18-24 May while in the line in the Hill 60 sector.

Could it be that Heale was attached to another unit?

[imd6662]

I have the war diary for 69 Brigade including 10 DoWs. It includes the operations order and notes for the action on 20 Sept.

PM me with your email address and I will forward it.

[DaveC]

Gents,

My relative served with the above. Can anyone tell me what sort of Battalion they were, and what they were doing up to 20 Sept 1917, the date my relative was killed. ( Henry Cox, No. 269057)

Hi Michael

Here is a report on the attack on 20/09/1917, it's as follows:-

Report on Attack of Village of Veldhoek and German Lines Immediately East of it and the subsequent Holding of the Green Line by the 10^th Duke of Wellington’s and 8^th Yorkshire Regiment.

“On 19 September. The Battalion moved after 9.30 into trenches and dugouts in the Sanctuary Wood area. This was effected without loss but was carried out under most trying conditions in pitch darkness and heavy rain and with the area not being thoroughly reconnoitred owing to both parties that had been sent out to reconnoitre the previous day having been knocked out by shell fire. The way in which the Companies were handled by their Commanders and the behaviour of the men under the circumstances were most admirable. At about 3.00am (20 September) the Companies began to move up to their assembly positions. The Companies had been ordered to be in position so as to be able to go into their respective positions immediately on these being vacated by the 9^th Yorkshire and the 11^th West Yorkshires, but owing to a party of the 9^th Yorkshires without an officer remaining, Major E. Borrow, temporarily commanding ‘A’ Company for the battle, was unable to get into trenches for a considerable time and the Company suffered severe casualties in consequence. A platoon under 2^nd Lieutenant Hulbred, too, was late in getting into position owing to its Commander and Platoon Sergeant being badly wounded and his platoon suffered considerable casualties. At 8.40am the Companies moved forward in columns of half platoons in file with ‘A’ Company followed by ‘C’ Company on the right – ‘B’ Company followed by ‘D’ Company in the centre and ‘D’ Company 8^th Yorkshires on the extreme left. The latter Company moved up the northern side of Inverness Copse and got through to their jumping off point in good order having the good fortune to get very little barrage on them. The four Companies of this Battalion which had gone through Inverness Copse had apretty heavy barrage put onto them and suffered considerable casualties and arrived at the jumping of point at about 9.10am with ‘B’ Company having lost all its officers except Lieutenant Anderson who, with his platoon, had lost direction somewhat and got to the right of ‘A’ Company, and who arrived in a somewhat disorganised state. But this was pulled together by Captain Payne and the whole line advanced punctually at about 9.53am about ten minutes after I had arrived with my HQ party at the Tower in S.P.1. From this time the advance could be watched from the Tower up to the time when our men disappeared over the ridge just behind the Green Line, though the smoke and dust of the shells made it difficult to see details but it was obvious all was going well. Northampton Farm on the left proved no obstacle to speak of but, just beyond, a line of over a dozen concrete dugouts and pill-boxes were heavily manned and armed with machine guns which, together with the enemy shells, caused a great many casualties to our ‘B’ and ‘D’ Companies. These dugouts were eventually cleared by the Battalion Companies, whilst others to the left were dealt with by the 8^th Yorkshires and these companies took up a line in the dugouts with posts 75 to 100 yards in front which were well dug in within an hour. At the same time Captain Payne, finding no one on his right, formed a defensive flank with one platoon of ‘B’ Company reinforced by two Lewis Guns sections. Meanwhile there was some stiff fighting for some of the concrete dugouts in the village of Veldhoek but these were cleared by the fine manoeuvring of Major Borrow and 2^nd Lieutenant Sparling and Anderson (whose platoon of ‘B’ Company had rather lost direction, but came on the scene just in time). As ‘A’ and ‘C’ Companies attacked the last line of concrete dugouts on the Green Line CSM Parker, observing that the dugouts on the left front of the 13^th Durham Light Infantry were holding them up, attacked from the flank and rear and captured them. This completed the capture of all our objectives and everywhere the troops dug in energetically and by noon our new line was secure,”

Hope this is of some use to you, Would you have any info on your relative which you could pass on to me for my records?

Kindest Regards DaveC

[Hambo]

Strange

I've doubled checked CWGC and ODGW and they have him as 3rd of May and DOW respectively. I don't suppose he could have been wounded much earlier and died in May? Do you happen to know when they were in the line before the training started?

He was wounded twice and relinquished his commission due to ill health in December 1916 but was reinstated in February 1917. Given that he is on the Menin Gate his simply dying from ill health or very old wounds seems unlikely. Is there anywhere I could find out whether he was transferred?

Lot of questions I'm afraid but this one is stumping me

Thanks for your reply

John

[imd6662]

Ah.. Dave C beat me to it.

Did you notice that in the war daiary this report actually puts the date as August and not September, and in at least two dsifferent places. But it clearly is this action.

The WD also contains the pre-operation orders but there is nothing particuarly of a personal nature in there.

[imd6662]

Yeah, it is strange. Because I went right back through the War Diary through to mid-1916 and couldn;t find any reference to him, either as a cauatly (and usually officers are named) or in orders or notes about transfers.

He;s mentioned in the London Gazette of 13 June 1919 and is referred to as Temp Lt. (Hon Lt in Army), DSO -- perhaps indicating that he is onl Boer War veteran. Given that CWGC ranks him Captain with the MC, you'd expect to find some reference to this in the WD!

Morevoer if he's on the Menin gate ten as far as I know that means he has no know grave, and if he died of wounds thyen that suggstes that he probably died soon after being wounded and was buried in a an area that was later lost, or not marked properly.

That's why I wonder if it's perhaps the wrong battalion.

Best source would of course be his service records and presumably oyu have checked on Ancestry to see if you win a prize in the service record lottery.

[Hambo]

Thanks for checking the diary. It looks like the wrong unit on CWGC etc I will do some further digging

He was a Boer War veteran, joining as a boy soldier and eventually rising to Lieutenant in the Yeomanry. I have found his MC citation in the Gazette so I wull double check all other sources to see if there is mention of him being attached

I too had concluded that if he had no known grave that he would have been died not long after being wounded which makes the reference to the 10th Battalion even odder.

I will report back if I find another lead and in the meantime thanks for everything

[imd6662]

OK. I'm curious too.

Does the MC citation give any clue to date/place/action earned?

[Hambo]

MC Citation here and definitely 10th Battalion

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/295...upplements/3985

I also found a gazette entry from his solicitors asking for claimants on his estate. Confirms date of death but no metion of unit

I have a new theory though. We know he resigned his commission in December 1916 for ill health but was reinstated on Feb 1st 1917. It list the Duke's but I reckon he went back to France with another battalion as it says "attd" and when he was killed CWGC at al gave his original battalion. What do you think?

Worth checking the war diary for the MC award though it does seem odd he doesn't get a mention at all!

[Hambo]

Found him

I have a history of the 1st and 2nd Batttalions and he is listed as being in command of No 2 Company, 2nd Battalio for the attack on the 3rd of May 1917 at the Chemical Works near Fampoux. He is listed as wounded and missing so looks like he was attached after he came back to the front. They attacked on the 9th of April as well and he is not aming the names of the officers which took part so he must have arrived as a reinforcement in between the two attacks

Mystery solved though it's strange he gets no mention in the war diaries of the 10th

[imd6662]

Bingo.

On 6 March 1916 the battalion marched to Bois de Bouvigny and thereafter on the 7th relieved the 9th Yorks in the line near the ruined village of Ablain. The trenches were very poor -- being liitle more than shell craters --, it was snowing, and the positions were under heavy fire.

On the 9th it was still snowing and the centre section of the line, held by C company, was under heavy fire. The medical officer was killed early in the day and Lt Heale obviously took over looking after the wounded too.

9/3 16: "More snow. During the day enemy continually bombarded us with trench mortars, aerial(?) torpedoes and shells of every calibre. The centre section of the trenches, manned by 54 men and one officer of C company suffered considerably, one kileld and 18 wounded. Ealry in the day the medical officer (Lt John Wilson) was killed whilst in performance of his duty (dressing the wounded). The undermentioned officer, NCO, and man were awarded the Military Cross and Distinguished Conduct Medal respectively for their gallantry and good bearing whilst in action under severe conditions: Lt GRC Heale, Sgt K Earnhaw, Pte J Hawkridge."

The battalion was releived on the following evening.

[Hambo]

Job done!! thanks so much for all your help in tracking him down.

He and his former school mates will be remembered shortly on a new website and this story will be among them.

Thanks again

[DaveC]

Ah.. Dave C beat me to it.

Did you notice that in the war daiary this report actually puts the date as August and not September, and in at least two dsifferent places. But it clearly is this action.

The WD also contains the pre-operation orders but there is nothing particuarly of a personal nature in there.

Hi IMD

yes strange that,especially twice. by the way nicework on the Lt G Heale request, I followed it with interest. Kindest Regards DaveC

[stoker99]

Four soldiers of the 10th Battalion were killed on 4th November 1915 - they were all buried in the Royal Irish Rifles Graveyard, Laventie. Since they were in a relatively quiet sector, I presume this was more of the everyday attrition of trench warfare. However, the death of four men seems a bit out of the ordinary. Would anyone happen to know if this is mentioned in the war diary?

thanks

Richard C

[myos]

Richard C

10th Batt Duke of Wellington's War Diary:-

4th November 1915

Still Raining. Much work on trenches was impossible owing to state of ground, and scarceness of R.E. material. Working party under Lt. Bolland was harrassed by the enemy, and the covering party was nearly cut off. Two men were killed. Lieut. Bolland with great coolness and courage got the covering party safely back, himself carrying one of the hit men in on his shoulder. He received 2 bullets through his coat during the feat. He was recommended for the Military Cross.

14760 Pte. F Ford

11737 Pte J Bradley

Hope that helps

Andy

[stoker99]

Andy - that's fantastic. Just what I looking for.

Many thanks

Richard

[PamHoward]

I, too, have a question about the 10th Bn, Duke of Wellington's in which my Grand Uncle fought and died on 10th June, 1917, South of Zillebeke, South East of Ypres.

I've found nothing to indicate that he was with the 69th Brigade, although perhaps someone can confirm that he would have belonged that that.

I've only just begun my journey into his life and death and know nothing about his unit's activities, so any pointers on how I can find out more would be greatly appreciated, particularly regarding the date of his death.

He was a Corporal (No. 13174)

Many thanks!

Pam7

[Old Owl]

Hi Pam,

Welcome to the Forum.

If you could give his full name, then it will certainly be easier for someone to help you with your research. There are several members on here who will I am sure be able to fill in some of the gaps for you.

Best wishes, Robert

[mmm45]

Pam

I have 69th Divs War Diary.On the date your grand Uncle was KIA 10th Dukes were in a battle to take Hill 60.Theres not much in the Div war diary but there is the full Operation Order and maps so you will know what he was doing.If you PM me an email address I will send you copies they are all digitally photographed.

Edit: I think you need a couple more posts to PM so reply a couple more times and youll be sorted.Welcome to the Forum

Ady

[CROONAERT]

10th Duke's war diary encompassing the 10th June 1917...

[PamHoward]

Thank you Robert, Andy and 'Croonaert', for coming back to me - and thanks for your welcome!

My Grand Uncle was called Dennis Bradbury and, according to a letter sent to his sisters (their parents were dead) by another member of his unit, he gave his life going to the assistance of a comrade who called for help after being wounded.

I wonder if he was ever awarded a posthumous medal, or similar, for his gallantry and, if so, how I might find out.

Pam