towisuk Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 Congratulations to all concerned, without their efforts it would have been a very different outcome. Thanks especially to Norman, who's unstinting efforts on behalf of the remains found at Beaucamp Ligny has been a marathon effort on the forum. regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandy hall Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 Fantastic news, Norman Must be an amazing feeling for the families involved. Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 Too kind Tom (Post 477) but this has been a joint effort and many people were involved. This forum has played a very important role in enabling discussion and focusing the excellent efforts of those members who supported this cause which resulted in the amazing outcome that we now see. It would be remiss if I did not make mention of member Mel Pack whose efforts have been unstinting since 2009 and without which I am doubtful that we would be where we are today Regards Norman Added Links Daily Express http://www.express.co.uk/news/world-war-1/466216/Ten-First-World-War-heroes-are-identified-at-last-by-DNA ITV (Inc Video) Recommended http://www.itv.com/news/2014-03-22/first-world-war-soldier-deserved-proper-burial/ The Star http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/south-yorkshire-wwi-soldiers-found-at-last-1-6515028 Western Daily Press http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/horrors-Warr-laid-rest/story-20841139-detail/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 Good news! Well done to all involved. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 Norman, MelPack and many others: Congratulations on this result. Perhaps it will now be accepted by the "Powers That Be" in the JCCC, Whitehall, MoD and elsewhere that there is a NEED for found remains to be accorded the dignity wherever possible of a Name. Yes, that may mean bothersome extra research, DNA testing etc etc but that shouldn't be seen as a deterrent, rather as challenges to be overcome. These men DID have Names, and public opinion should be harnessed to ensure that no other remains are buried as "Known Unto God" before every avenue to a positive ID has been exhausted. If this leads to the JCCC becoming the world leader on identifications, then that will be a lasting tribute to ALL fallen soldiers. It would also seem to need a sea(dog) change in perception in France, Belgium and elsewhere that discovering remains of soldiers is NOT an excuse to plunder artefacts that may hold the key to identification. Some form of financial aid should be considered to compensate anyone who finds remains, increased where a positive ID is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankyboy77 Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 Hi All I want to thank all of you who help't me, I found out that my grandfather was not among the 15 BL . My cousins were like me gutted that L/cpl Larrett Roebuck, was not among the 15. I can only say good luck to the 10 family's, at last they can rest in peace In France. Thank you all Mel ,and you Norman and a special thank you to Dean Hill who went with me to France to find were the were found, Larrett (Frank) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 Frank you can take some consolation in the fact that Larrett may of course already be buried in a War Cemetery as “Known Unto God” or that he is still as so many thousands are on the battlefield near to where his battalion fought. It is for the latter scenario that I hope the unmatched DNA samples will be properly retained in the event that more finds are made in the location. Perhaps Mel will post and advise us as to whether this will be the case. Best Wishes Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glosterman Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 Frank you can take some consolation in the fact that Larrett may of course already be buried in a War Cemetery as “Known Unto God” or that he is still as so many thousands are on the battlefield near to where his battalion fought. It is for the latter scenario that I hope the unmatched DNA samples will be properly retained in the event that more finds are made in the location. Perhaps Mel will post and advise us as to whether this will be the case. Best Wishes Norman I am no legal expert but I do not think this will be allowed as the sample would have been provided for a specific task and there are strict rules regarding the use and storage of DNA profiles from living subjects, even for the Police, let alone organisations like the MoD. Likewise, to the best of my knowledge the MoD does not maintain a database of DNA for serving soldiers so is unlikely to fund one for historic cases. However, I do not see any reason why the records/ profiles relating to the bodies which remain unidentified, cannot be retained for future consultation. KH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 In that case we must agree to disagree for I believe it essential to retain the unmatched DNA profiles for future reference for if not then all you will do is to repeat the exercise. In case there may be any confusion over this let me reiterate that the retained DNA profiles could only be used in for instance a hypothetical case if all the associated circumstances of any future finds in the area lend themselves to such comparative analysis. Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deano Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 A massive WELL DONE to the brains and the driving force of the project, Melvyn Pack. It was stated at the meeting that only the DNA samples taken from the remains are to be held. Dean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 Well done to all involved. Better late than never, but that is ten more soldiers who can be properly honoured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 Not forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhogg Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 Wonderful news. It looks as if the MOD came through with great results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 I was in the car when I heard the news and whooped to the considerable surprise of my family. What a great result and the Forum can take a good bit of credit for getting this job done and keeping the MOD honest about the ID process. Our members who led the way on this should be very proud. I hope they all get to stand and proudly survey those 10 named graves later this year. We will remember them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhogg Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 QUOTE (Connor @ Nov 24 2009, 05:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Does anyone know where "near Contalmaison" the bodies were located? Hi Connor, I have e-mailed the Chairman of the Somme RBL regarding the circumstances and location of the discoveries and if I get a response I will post it here. Regards Norman Many thanks, Norman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 A massive WELL DONE to the brains and the driving force of the project, Melvyn Pack. It was stated at the meeting that only the DNA samples taken from the remains are to be held. Dean. I am not referring to the physical samples Dean like the swabs but the data profile created from those swabs donated by the control group of probable relatives of the fallen. Perhaps you can enlighten me on a hypothetical situation of there being yet another find of soldier’s remains in the general area of the BL-15 with indications that these could also be from the Y & L. If the unmatched data profiles are not retained surely that would mean yet another request for DNA specimens from the possible relatives only this time excluding those 10 whose DNA profile has been successfully matched. Will the MOD or whatever organization was responsible for the DNA investigation actually delete the aforementioned records from their database leading to the whole process having to be started from the beginning? Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 Is it too early to speculate as to which cemetery they will be laid to rest in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 23 March , 2014 Share Posted 23 March , 2014 Peter 1000hrs on the 22nd October 2014 at Y Farm War Cemetery http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/2000042/Y%20FARM%20MILITARY%20CEMETERY,%20BOIS-GRENIER I believe this to be correct Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 23 March , 2014 Share Posted 23 March , 2014 One notes that a beaming Colonel Norton of the Y&L's has been on TV saying how wonderful the ID results have turned out to be. Hopefully this indicates a new found post Fromelles/BL-15 defence establishment enthusiasm for continuing to use advanced ID techniques when appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 23 March , 2014 Share Posted 23 March , 2014 Peter 1000hrs on the 22nd October 2014 at Y Farm War Cemetery http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/2000042/Y%20FARM%20MILITARY%20CEMETERY,%20BOIS-GRENIER I believe this to be correct Norman Thank you Norman, will you be there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 23 March , 2014 Share Posted 23 March , 2014 I certainly hope to be at the funeral in October. I doubt whether we will get a better opportunity to say a final centenary thank you to these particular men and by extension the Old Contemptibles. Happily, one of those identified comes from Box Hill Dorking just a few miles from where I live. So a hand-full of soil from that beauty spot may well make the trip with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 23 March , 2014 Share Posted 23 March , 2014 Thank you Norman, will you be there ? Probably not Peter but there in spirit as I sure many other members will be Regards Norman Added: This would make an excellent subject for a documentary considering that the soldiers fell in 1914 and 100 years later the majority are actually named plus the fact that the relatives reactions that I have heard or read will greatly enhance the programme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 24 March , 2014 Share Posted 24 March , 2014 Has any member an opinion on my post 492, I may be misunderstanding the post from Dean1 but if not and the unmatched DNA profiles obtained from the swabs are deleted in my view that would be unfortunate to put it mildly if other soldiers are found in similar circumstances to the BL-15 in the future. Norman Added: I have also emailed Ms Raftree of the JCCC on this subject today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 24 March , 2014 Share Posted 24 March , 2014 Has any member an opinion on my post 492? Norman - I fear that the retention of DNA samples may be covered by all sorts of over-arching legislation. There are strict rules on the retention of DNA and people having to give permission for the retention. Many thousands of samples have been destroyed recently due to the circumstances under which they were gathered. Quite agree that it would be desirable for these samples to be retained but it may simply not be possible to do so legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 24 March , 2014 Share Posted 24 March , 2014 I take your point Ian but this comes I believe into a different category where the DNA data is being used for the benefit of the donors. It would surely have been a simple matter at the time the donors were originally contacted to legally offer them the option of their data being securely retained for future use if there was no match in this case. It could then be used if a similar situation arises again and who is to say it will not, or to have the data deleted in which case given the scenario of more remains being found in the area and with ID that indicates they were members of the Y & L then what?, more requests for DNA samples or just bury the remains as unknowns. The plain facts are Ian as I see them that we are still firmly in the days of an almost complete lack of transparency regarding the discovery and treatment of our Great War dead and I see no reason whatsoever for such a policy. Perhaps the JCCC will respond on this matter. Regards Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now