A 1914 soldier who lost his Battalion and 'fell in' with anoth

[nthornton1979]

Hi all,

I am in possesion of a BWM to a pre-war regular of the Coldstream Guards who entered France in Aug 14 and who was killed in the Nov.

I also have a few newspaper cuttings one of which has me a bit confused. It states that he went missing for two days after losing his Battalion but then 'fell in' with the Cheshire's as a Seargant.

His medal is named up as Pte and his MIC sates L/Cpl. There is no mention of any service with the Cheshire's or the rank of Seargant.

So it was possible to 'fall in' with another Battalion if you lost your own ?

I am assuming this would have been temporary and the rank of Seragant was not 'official; hence there's no mention on his MIC ?

This is going to be an interesting one to research as he was Mentioned In Dispatches and also put in for the DCM - But I don't know if this was with the Gurads or Cheshire's !

I would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on this.

Neil

[archangel9]

Neil,

What was his name/number? I seem to remember reading a similar story on a post somewhere on GWF. It was 1914 but involved a Connaught Ranger who was found drunk and lost by, if I remember right, the Coldstream Guards. He fell in with them and was KIA while serving with the Guards Bn.

I would have thought this could have happened a lot in 1914 during the so called "War of Movement".

John

[27thBN]

Hi all,

I am in possesion of a BWM to a pre-war regular of the Coldstream Guards who entered France in Aug 14 and who was killed in the Nov.

I also have a few newspaper cuttings one of which has me a bit confused. It states that he went missing for two days after losing his Battalion but then 'fell in' with the Cheshire's as a Seargant.

His medal is named up as Pte and his MIC sates L/Cpl. There is no mention of any service with the Cheshire's or the rank of Seargant.

So it was possible to 'fall in' with another Battalion if you lost your own ?

I am assuming this would have been temporary and the rank of Seragant was not 'official; hence there's no mention on his MIC ?

This is going to be an interesting one to research as he was Mentioned In Dispatches and also put in for the DCM - But I don't know if this was with the Gurads or Cheshire's !

I would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on this.

Neil

Neil does seem rather unusual to join another unit but in war not to much would surprise me,at first thought he would be awol but would he be wanted a change in unit ,but very early in the war for that .During the early part of the war being so mobile it probably did happen a bit.

MC

[Tony Lund]

This letter describes how a Private of the 8th Battalion, Duke of Wellington’s West Riding Regiment was killed serving with the Dublin Fusiliers at Gallipoli:

“Dear Madam, I have noticed your letter in the Express two or three times asking for information about Walter. You see we trained together at Halifax and went to Grantham together. There were not many of us from Holmfirth way, so we used to stick together as much as possible. I am now going to tell you the story as far as I know it. We landed here on the Friday night, August 6th, and had to start fighting as soon as we landed, and if ever a man won distinction Walter did that night. He carried a wounded Captain of our Regiment right out of the Turks’ trenches to a place of safety, and the bullets were simply raining all around him. He then dashed back to his Regiment, but it appears he got lost, and got in with some other Regiment in the 10th Division. He was with that Regiment when he received his wound. Lance Corporal Wood was with him, and it was from him that I got to hear of him.

“This was on Monday, August 9th. He said they both got lost, and found themselves with the Dublin Fusiliers, so, not knowing where we were they decided to stay with them for the time being. That very night they had a bayonet charge in which Walter got wounded, and Lance Corporal Wood stayed with him, as they had got lost again. It is easy to get lost in a charge, for you can’t see ten yards in front of you for bushes and ravines all over the hillsides. Well, not being able to carry him himself, he went for assistance, but he never found him again, and he got killed himself on the Wednesday, else I would have asked him to write to you. I sincerely hope that someone did find him and carry him down, but I have asked about him scores of times, and he is regarded as wounded and missing in our Regiment.”

Also - Holmfirth’s Sergeant Hubert Moodycliffe is officially recorded both as a Corporal and an Acting Corporal, and for good measure as Herbert.

Tony

[Coldstreamer]

nothing i could see re the coldstream gds

[nthornton1979]

Many thank for all replies.

Tony (Lund) - That's a very interesting letter and clearly proves this sort of thing did occur.

For interest here is everything I have on 'my man'.

8457 Joshus Thomas Grantham (Pte on BWM,L.Cpl on CWGC,Service records, De Ruvigny's Roll of Honour)

2nd Coldstream Guards

Entered France 12.08.14

Died of Wounds 15.11.14

Here is the newspaper article as it appears :-

A COTTINGHAM HERO

The death from wounds has been reported of Seargant Joshua T Grantham, Coldstream Guards, son of Mr and Mrs Albert Grantham of West Green, Cottingham. Seargant Grantham went out with the 2nd Coldstream Guards as Corporal, lost his Regiment, was missing for two days, fell in with the 1st Cheshire Regiment and became Seargant. He died near Ypres on November 15th.

In a letter to Miss D Hairsine of Cottingham he gave an account of one of his last brave acts, for which he was recommended for the Distinguished Conduct Medal. He wrote :-

"I've been in some pretty hot corners but never so hot as last Friday. I was leading about 30 men down a road about midnight, when we suddenly ran bang into the Germans, and it's a wonder we weren't all done in. As soon as they fired on us we dropped into a ditch and let them have it hot and strong, and after a while succeeded in driving them back, but not before they had killed one and wounded four of us.

After we had been ordered to retire I and three Officers went back to fetch the wounded and were chased again, but we eventually succeeded in getting three away and the others were found in the morning after the enemy had finally been driven off. Our Captain was wounded and has recommended me for the Distinguished Conduct Medal"

In the letter received by his Mother two days after his death, he says :-

"I have done my duty up to now and have played the man. I have been Mentioned in Dispatches and have also been recommended for the DCM"

Neil

[Jim Strawbridge]

In battle I would not have thought it unusual for some men to lose their regiment by straying too far to the left or right and to remain with that new regiment for the duration of the fight. But as soon as there was a lull they would work themselves back to their original regiment to continue their service. I would have thought it very unlikely that they would disappear off the books of a regiment and on to anothers through just being there.

[nthornton1979]

Thanks Jim,

That's what was bothering me. I too found it very unlikely that he could fall into another Regiment and be made a Sergeant. Maybe an error in the newspaper article or maybe I'm reading it wrong. I read it to mean he was Sgt with the Cheshire's but it could mean he fell in with the Cheshire's and was later made a Sgt - When back with his own Regiment. The reason I say it could be an error in the article is the fact that this is the only source that claims he made the rank of Sgt before losing his life.

Neil

[truthergw]

I suspect that this report was by someone with little or no idea of how the army functioned. Some kind of jumbled information was cobbled together. As far as the chaos and confusion involved throughout most of the retreat from Mons, there are two books by participants. " Liaison 1914 " by Edward Spears, a junior staff officer and " A Frenchman in Khaki", by Paul Maze. Maze volunteered as an interpreter to the British and was himself arrested and within minutes of being shot as a spy when he got separated from the unit he was working with and was swept up by another. Every unit had stragglers who either rejoined later or tagged along with another unit until they could rejoin their own. Needless to say, none would be promoted but a man might have been asked to perform a duty normally carried out by a sergeant. A mention of this in a letter, a garbled account passed on and Bob's your uncle.

[centurion]

In the midst of a confused fighting retreat men who got separated from their units could well attach them selves to whatsoever was around. If that unit had heavy casualties amongst its NCOs their officers  might well also welcome a corporal with some experience and even ask him to act in the role of sergeant to plug a temporary gap. This would be very ad hoc and he would pick up his  old rank when reunited with his own battalion.

[nthornton1979]

Many thanks chaps

Neil

[Guest duesouth]

Hi Neil

Apologies for the belated reply to your post. Just came across it while researching my relative Joshua Thomas Grantham.

JT Grantham was my great grandfather's cousin. My great grandfather, George Ernest Grantham also lived in Cottingham, and he was subsequently killed in action in 1916 and is buried in Laventie, France.

I remember last November coming across JT Grantham's medal for sale but it'd already sold by the time I'd found it. Read the accompanying press cutting with interest though.

I'd be interested to hear whether you've managed to find out anything more about him and his experience 'falling in' with the 1^st Cheshire Regiment. Was there any more mention about his recommendation for the DCM?

I've always been intrigued by Joshua's story since first seeing his name alongside my great grandfather's on the Cottingham memorial gates when I was a child.

Would really appreciate any information on what you've learned.

Regards

Allan