Wesley Wright Posted 18 November , 2009 Share Posted 18 November , 2009 Anyone have information on SS"Catlebar" (Belfast)--Where was she lost?. Unable to find out any information-apart from the 10 men who were lost on 13/03/1918. Wesley Wright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wightspirit Posted 18 November , 2009 Share Posted 18 November , 2009 Hi Wesley According to Lloyd's War Losses, the 508 ton Castlebar departed Glasgow on 12 March 1918 for Limerick with a cargo of wheat. The vessel was reported to have passed Fanad Head on 14 March. She was listed as missing on 7 August 1918. This information is contained within 'Missing and untraced merchant vessels' in Lloyd's. If she was a victim of a u-boat, there are others on this forum who will be able to identify which one was responsible. If not, she probably fell victim to the weather. There is no entry for the ship in the book 'British merchant vessels sunk by u-boats in the 1914-1918 war' so it may be the case she sank through stress of weather. Without survivors of witnesses we may never know. Dave W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Wright Posted 18 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2009 Thanks for information--if as suggested she may have perished due to weather conditions, why would crew be on CWGC? Wesley Wright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 18 November , 2009 Share Posted 18 November , 2009 Wesley, If it went missing in home waters, the crew is probably listed on the Tower Hill Memorial. The RN and CWGC were rather liberal in recognizing the crews of missing ships. Essentially, the general presumption was that ships that went missing did so from war-related causes. I'm one of a number of researchers going through U-boat war diaries to (among other things) attribute out unexplained events in the submarine war. We've been able to explain a number of ship disappearances in the last few years and almost always the crew is already in the CWGC. We haven't found a match to account for Castlebar yet though. Note that mines are always a possibility. Had a look at the weather charts for March 14, 1918. Looks rather nice actually. Hard to write this one off as weather-related. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 18 November , 2009 Share Posted 18 November , 2009 Oh, and the elephant in the room for this one: U 110, sunk the next day (March 15, 1918) at 55°49'N, 08°06'W. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Wright Posted 19 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 November , 2009 The crew of the SS"ARGUS" ARE on local war memorial--but not on CWGC--LOST on 28/10/1917--where was she lost?? Wesley Wright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 19 November , 2009 Share Posted 19 November , 2009 Wesley Wright said: The crew of the SS"ARGUS" ARE on local war memorial--but not on CWGC--LOST on 28/10/1917--where was she lost?? Wesley Wright You are not the first pal to look into the Argus...see: I'll poke around a bit and see what turns up. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 19 November , 2009 Share Posted 19 November , 2009 Already found: ARGUS 1,238 gross ton collier which left Lerwick for Tromso on 20th Oct. 1917 and went missing with a cargo of coal and coke...presumed mined in the North Sea, but SS ARGUS may have been lost at sea after a collision in fog with the "SS SORAKAI", but Miramar has no ship by that name. The listing for Argus on Miramar: http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/ship/show/213433 If she was lost via accident you might enquire at Southampton Libraries to see if they have a wreck report on her: http://www.plimsoll.org/WrecksAndAccidents...rts/default.asp Crew Agreements for the Argus up to and including 1917 can be found here: http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombine...ficial_No=83990 Lastly, there are materials on this ship at the National Archives UK: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalog...;CATID=-5677960 -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Wright Posted 19 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 November , 2009 Thanks for all the information--at least 3 men from my area were on board "Argus". Referring to SS" Castlebar"--NO PROOF that she was lost due to enemy action --yet crew all on Cwgc. Tell me difference with "Argus". Wesley Wright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 19 November , 2009 Share Posted 19 November , 2009 Wes Try being a bit more diplomatic - otherwise who would want to help you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Wright Posted 19 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 November , 2009 Wes Try being a bit more diplomatic - otherwise who would want to help you? Sorry--but would not have to agree?!! Wesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 19 November , 2009 Share Posted 19 November , 2009 Wesley, If you want to discuss whether someone should or should not be commemoratied by the CWGC, I would recommend a separate post in the "Possible non-commemorations" section. And no, I would NOT agree. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 19 November , 2009 Share Posted 19 November , 2009 Do we know that Castlebar was not lost due to enemy action? I would be more concerned that the men of Argus perhaps should be commemorated, but are not, assuming the mine theory is in fact what happened. I found a description of Argus' sister ship, the SS Balbus, that was published in 1884, which can give us an idea of what she looked like: This is from Marine Engineer and Naval Architect. Per the Manual of Shipping (1884), she originally weighed in at 1191 GRT and her powerplant produced 150 nominal horsepower. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Una Posted 27 November , 2011 Share Posted 27 November , 2011 Anyone have information on SS"Catlebar" (Belfast)--Where was she lost?. Unable to find out any information-apart from the 10 men who were lost on 13/03/1918. Wesley Wright Hello Wesley, I was so happy to read your posts regarding the SS Castlebar. My grandfather was on board and is listed at Tower Hill Memorial as missing, presumed drowned 13/03/1918. I always thought the SS Castlebar was one of Kelly's coal boats - was it? I have tried in vain for a long time to get more information about it. Sorry, I don't have any other details. I am very interested to get as much information as possible and who the rest of the crew were. I remember my Father telling me the captain was Norwegian, is that right? Thanks and I really enjoyed reading the posts. Una SS Castlebar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 27 November , 2011 Share Posted 27 November , 2011 Hello Wesley, I was so happy to read your posts regarding the SS Castlebar. My grandfather was on board and is listed at Tower Hill Memorial as missing, presumed drowned 13/03/1918. I always thought the SS Castlebar was one of Kelly's coal boats - was it? I have tried in vain for a long time to get more information about it. Sorry, I don't have any other details. I am very interested to get as much information as possible and who the rest of the crew were. I remember my Father telling me the captain was Norwegian, is that right? Thanks and I really enjoyed reading the posts. Una SS Castlebar Hello Una I have these on my database CRAWFORD, William Chief Engineer MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 CUNNINGHAM, Robert Mate MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 ERIKSON, James 2nd Mate MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 ERIKSON, John 2nd Engineer MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 McCOMISH, Daniel Steward & Able Seaman MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 O’KEEFE, Michael Fireman MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 ROBINSON, Wm. John Reynolds Fireman MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 RYDING, William Henry Master MM Castlebar (Belfast) 13.3.18 TSANTAIUS, John Able Seaman MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 TWYFORD, Thomas Able Seaman MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 BURMAN, George H, Ordinary Seaman, RNVR, Bristol Z 9812, Castlebar, steamship, 14 March 1918, untraced CATTELL, George H, Leading Seaman, RNVR, Bristol Z 9669, Castlebar, steamship, 14 March 1918, untraced Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Una Posted 27 November , 2011 Share Posted 27 November , 2011 Hello Ron, That's wonderful, many thanks. He is listed amongst them : McCOMISH, Daniel Steward & Able Seaman MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 Thank you so much, Una Hello Una I have these on my database CRAWFORD, William Chief Engineer MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 CUNNINGHAM, Robert Mate MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 ERIKSON, James 2nd Mate MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 ERIKSON, John 2nd Engineer MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 McCOMISH, Daniel Steward & Able Seaman MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 O'KEEFE, Michael Fireman MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 ROBINSON, Wm. John Reynolds Fireman MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 RYDING, William Henry Master MM Castlebar (Belfast) 13.3.18 TSANTAIUS, John Able Seaman MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 TWYFORD, Thomas Able Seaman MM SS Castlebar (Belfast) drowned 13.3.18 BURMAN, George H, Ordinary Seaman, RNVR, Bristol Z 9812, Castlebar, steamship, 14 March 1918, untraced CATTELL, George H, Leading Seaman, RNVR, Bristol Z 9669, Castlebar, steamship, 14 March 1918, untraced Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 28 November , 2011 Share Posted 28 November , 2011 The Castlebar was a 508-ton steam cargo vessel that was completed as yard No.99 by Mackie & Thomson, Glasgow in October 1895; she was launched as the MADGE BALLANTYNE (Official No.105959) for R. B. Ballantyne & Co., Glasgow. She measured 162.0 x 25.8and was powered by an aft positioned 3-cylinder triple expansion steam engine that gave 11-knots. In 1916 she was renamed CASTLEBAR by W. M. Barkley & Sons, Ltd., Belfast The vessel went missing since passing Fanad Head on 14 March 1918, while on a voyage from Glasgow to Limerick with grain, presumed war loss. Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Una Posted 28 November , 2011 Share Posted 28 November , 2011 The Castlebar was a 508-ton steam cargo vessel that was completed as yard No.99 by Mackie & Thomson, Glasgow in October 1895; she was launched as the MADGE BALLANTYNE (Official No.105959) for R. B. Ballantyne & Co., Glasgow. She measured 162.0 x 25.8and was powered by an aft positioned 3-cylinder triple expansion steam engine that gave 11-knots. In 1916 she was renamed CASTLEBAR by W. M. Barkley & Sons, Ltd., Belfast The vessel went missing since passing Fanad Head on 14 March 1918, while on a voyage from Glasgow to Limerick with grain, presumed war loss. Cheers Ron Hello Ron, You are so kind to send all this information. I had very sketchy info before so I am thrilled to have all these details. I have been at Fanad Head many times and had no idea that was were the ship went missing. Lough Swilly provided a major naval anchorage during WW1 with Fanad Head protecting its western shore. The former White Star liner SS Laurentic sailed on 15 January 1917 with 43 tons of gold on passage to Canada. The vessel struck two German mines and sank two miles off the headland with a loss of 354 lives. Thank you so much, Una Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryding Posted 13 November , 2013 Share Posted 13 November , 2013 I have just discovered this site as I was searching for information on the SS Castlebar. All very interesting information. My grandfather, William Henry Ryding, was master of the boat when she was lost. The following information came from my father who had been sailing with his father. Obviously Cpt Ryding had some premonition for his final trip. As my father and grandfather were leaving their house in Belfast to join his boat, my grand father told my dad to remain at home and gave him his pocket watch to look after until his return. I still have the watch. There was usually a crew of 13 on the Castlebar that include two brothers. In Liverpool the brothers received news that their mother was ill. One brother returned home but the other remained. I think he was William Crawford, the Chief Engineer. The boat was scheduled to sail to Limerick heading south down the Irish Sea and past Cork. However, they were advised to join a convoy heading to Derry, Lough Swilly, as there was reported to be German submarines in their planned route. When the convoy reached the mouth of Lough Swilley the Castlebar contined on her route towards Limerick. Shortly after getting out of sight of the convoy a number of lookouts on convoy ships reported hearing an explosion and it was assumed the Castlebar had either been torpedoed or had hit a mine. If Una should still be reading this conversation I have a photo of what I believe is the crew of the Castlebar. I would be pleased to send you a copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Una Posted 13 November , 2013 Share Posted 13 November , 2013 WOW, Bryding, That is amazing both our grandfathers were on board. What a moving story and that you still have that watch. And a photo!! It's a superstition here that it's bad luck to re-name a ship but your grandfather certainly had an insight of his own, didn't he? My father was of the opinion it was probably a mine that sank the boat. I will send you my email in a message, that is fantastic and thanks so much for posting. Una Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryding Posted 22 November , 2013 Share Posted 22 November , 2013 In the "Members Gallery" I have posted a photograph of the crrew of the SS Castlebar. Daniel McComish is 2nd from the right standing back row and Cpt Ryding is in the middle standing back row. Can anyone identify any of the other crew members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest devlinfa Posted 2 January , 2015 Share Posted 2 January , 2015 I have just joined this forum and have found it to be fascinating. Thank you all for your contributions. I too have a relative (second cousin) who was lost with the Castlebar, or at least I thought it was one. His name is Erikson but now from the listing of who was lost there are two Eriksons, maybe brothers. I would really like to get hold of the photo of the crew once I overcome the issus of why I can't access the Members Gallery. Also, does anyone know how I can get hold of plans of the SS Castlebar for model making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dankane Posted 5 January , 2015 Share Posted 5 January , 2015 I also have only just joined the forum and am interested in William Crawford, the chief engineer. His merchant navy record gives his last place of abode as Fourscoreacre, Cairncastle. Although he also had a brother, Alexander, at sea, their mother had died in 1911, so the above story about one brother returning home for this reason may relate to someone or something else. Does William Crawford appear in the picture of the crew? The family would love to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabanana628 Posted 22 February , 2017 Share Posted 22 February , 2017 Hello! I have just discovered that my grandfather's brother was on the SS Castlebar. His name was Michael O'Keeffe and he was a fireman on the ship. He was born in Blackpool, Cork. Does anyone know how I can get into the Member Gallery to see the photo of the crew? I am fascinated by all the information that the members of this group have provided! Thank you all so much! Ann (O'Keeffe) Reilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 22 February , 2017 Share Posted 22 February , 2017 3 hours ago, annabanana628 said: Does anyone know how I can get into the Member Gallery to see the photo of the crew? Here you are CLICK Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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