What Happened To Men Who Refused

[MartH]

For the number 18 to be correct we are assuming that the German records survived and that the records where recorded in Oct/Nov 1918.

[truthergw]

For the numbers to be false, we need to assume that there was an overwhelming reason to falsify them.

[centurion]

The German (and Belgian) figures for executions are low because they had an alternative - the penal company. By the end of WW1 there were over 100 German penal companies doing hard work in very dangerous situations. Why shoot a man when the enemy will do it for you and you can get some work out of him in the meantime? It would be interesting to know what the survival rate was in penal companies.

[Robert Dale]

For the numbers to be false, we need to assume that there was an overwhelming reason to falsify them.

Not necessarily false, but perhaps incomplete because of later destruction (rather like our own 'burnt documents'). I have no idea whether this is so or not; it was merely a question.

Robert

[centurion]

Not necessarily false, but perhaps incomplete because of later destruction (rather like our own 'burnt documents'). I have no idea whether this is so or not; it was merely a question.

Robert

Indeed - on a more general note one wonders how complete records in Germany are. I know that much was destroyed deliberately in 1919 (for example many of the records of the air service were burnt lest the Allies use then to restrict the re building of a German air force). Occasional drop in visits by the RAF on later dates certainly cleared out some artifacts and records pertaining to WW1 and then its possible that more material was borrowed by touring Russians.

[Pete1052]

"Dans ce pay-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres."

--Voltaire in Candide

[centurion]

"Dans ce pay-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres."

--Voltaire in Candide

Although Voltaire was referring to the execution of Admiral Byng (for having failed to relieve the Majorca garrison) he was actually having a sly dig at the French authorities who had just done exactly the same thing with the French general who surrendered Pondicherry to the British.

[Tyrim]

Which brings up some interesting questions: how did they form a firing squad to execute a general or admiral, who picked the shooters, could people refuse to serve, how did people feel about the assignment, who would be marched by the site to learn a lesson from the execution? All the questions for the execution of a Private should apply to the General as well. I wonder if the answers would be the same?

[chloeflorence]

Although Voltaire was referring to the execution of Admiral Byng (for having failed to relieve the Majorca garrison) he was actually having a sly dig at the French authorities who had just done exactly the same thing with the French general who surrendered Pondicherry to the British.

It was the Minorca garrison at Mahon that Byng failed to relieve, not Majorca.

Jim

[green_acorn]

I disagree with many of the comments about firing squad discipline, as I don't believe it is as simple as some may imply, but I don't want to enter into the arguement other than to observe that:

I wouldn't underestimate the power of peer group pressure in the selection and actions of a firing squad.

If a WO/SNCO selected a group they would have been hardly likely to individually interview each soldier as to whether they would mind participating in an execution. I would imagine they would have done it on a parade of the squad to enhance the effects of peer pressure to conform, they would then have drilled the squad heavily to enshrine the instictive reaction to the command "fire" and I imagine the squad would have had a good tot of SRD before and after the event. Nevertheless, I have no doubt there were soldiers who refused to participate and that they may have been looked on sympathetically, particularly if they were known to otherwise be brave and resolute soldiers.

Hendo

[centurion]

It was the Minorca garrison at Mahon that Byng failed to relieve, not Majorca.

Jim

Quite correct in the island . I slipped. Didn't think it was Mahon itself though that was under siege though

[Mark Crame]

Guys, you are mostly far more informed than I on general topics but I am 99% positive that I have read that membership of a firing squad is the one duty you can/could legally refuse in the British Army. I don't know where I read it (could have been in Charley's War even, for all I know!) but i'm pretty certain it's true.

[Guest Thomas Atkins]

Firing squads could vary in size 9-12 firers and, too the composition of the firers. some times these men were drawn from the convicted mans unit. There was at least one occasion where the fires "missed the Target", and it fell to the Luckless officer commanding the execution party to dispatch the accused with his webley.

An execution party usually consisted of

Officer I/c

senior NCO

firing party

Chaplain

3 man burial detail

Firing squad size

[Khaki]

Although the question is rather a moot point now, I wonder why a soldier who was sentenced to death under military law, was not executed by military police firing squad? was it that being executed by your comrades was considered an object lesson to others??

comments anyone?

khaki

[David B]

Military police are probably detested enough without adding firing squad to their CV.

If an admiral or general was sentenced to death by firing squad I don't think there would be any problem as surely he would be stripped of his rank prior to fronting the squad.

David