27thBN Posted 5 November , 2009 Share Posted 5 November , 2009 Could please get the amount of DCM bars awarded please for WW1. I had number given to me before but did not seem high enough .just want a second opinion Thanks MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 8 November , 2009 Share Posted 8 November , 2009 Does the figure appear in Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1914-1920 by Robert Walker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 9 November , 2009 Share Posted 9 November , 2009 It certainly appears in British Gallantry Awards by Abbott and Tamplin and I think in the Statistics of the Allied Effort in the Great War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Does the figure appear in Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1914-1920 by Robert Walker? Yes this is the book I heard that the stats were in .The number another told me was 472 DCM bars but i would have thought that it was higher than that .Does anyone have a copy to look up again Thanks MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavoT Posted 9 November , 2009 Share Posted 9 November , 2009 According to the book mentioned (Walker) it states 490 bars and 10 second bars. There is also a second bar awarded to a Belgian soldier. Hope this helps. Cheers, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 9 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2009 Ok well thats great i had 472 and the book 490 so not to much difference thanks for looking it up for me maybe you might need a coronation or jubilee lookup I have most of the rolls from 1935 to 1977 Thanks MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavoT Posted 10 November , 2009 Share Posted 10 November , 2009 Hi MC, no problems. Glad to help and thanks for your offer of lookups . This is what it's all about - helping and sharing of information. Cheers, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 10 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2009 Yes too true, Anyway i have a listing in the reference section if you need anything looked up at a latter time please do so Thanks MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 10 November , 2009 Share Posted 10 November , 2009 Ok well thats great i had 472 and the book 490 The discrepancy can probably accounted for by Walker listing 19 bars to pre WWI awards. 472 1st bars (including one to a Belgian) plus 19 1st bars to previous awards give 491: Walker's total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 11 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2009 The discrepancy can probably accounted for by Walker listing 19 bars to pre WWI awards. 472 1st bars (including one to a Belgian) plus 19 1st bars to previous awards give 491: Walker's total. Thanks for that so both numbers i got are correct depending on exactly how you are counting them .Still not many I wonder how many are left??? I just got a new group and wanted to know.As to your comment the other day i did i check and well and truly find out what an artificer does A qualified Mechanic in both army ,navy and else were. Thanks MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 14 November , 2009 Share Posted 14 November , 2009 I had number given to me before but did not seem high enough. One of the limiting factors for the DCM was that each award brought a gratuity. Another was that many in the army considered promotion as valid as a decoration in rewarding for gallentry, especially in the first years of the war. So the high number of rankers being commissioned reduced the pool available for bars to the DCM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 14 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2009 One of the limiting factors for the DCM was that each award brought a gratuity. Another was that many in the army considered promotion as valid as a decoration in rewarding for gallentry, especially in the first years of the war. So the high number of rankers being commissioned reduced the pool available for bars to the DCM. I was always aware of officers getting a brevet in lieu of a decoration ,but never thought about similar for enlisted men re the being commissioned from the ranks .I for one never would have thought for a moment that you could as such put a price on bravery ie a promotion instead of an award .Money/promotion was effectively as good as a gallantry medal when it came down to it .Also did each extra DCM get a gratuity .. would have been very nice indeed MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 15 November , 2009 Share Posted 15 November , 2009 Gallantry was one of the routes for being commissioned from the ranks for over 100 years; as fictionalised in the Sharpe novels. In the time of purchase of commissions it was a way for both officers so promoted and the less wealthy to rise up the ranks. An example was Major General Sir Luke O'Connor who was commissioned following his bravery in the Crimea and later received subsequent promotions for gallantry in the Indian Mutiny and Ashanti War, if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 16 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 16 November , 2009 Well I have certainly appreciated the comments,and info ,as they say you learn something new everyday .Does make sense re being promoted from the ranks by a gallant deed.You wonder as per your comment of the gratuity.That money comes into it so how many men who got a commission did so instead of a gallantry award and how it was discussed .I mean in a discussion " well how about a DCM or as you have been a great say Cpl we will give you a commission your choice" is this likely at all to really have happened ,was money that an important issue in the award system during the war. Thanks MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 16 November , 2009 Share Posted 16 November , 2009 I doubt that there would often be a discussion with a man what reward he would get! As for money being a factor in the considerations, impossible to say, but I think it may have been in the mind of some pre war officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 30 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 30 November , 2009 Just as an after thought to the thread just received my copy of the book by R W Walker great info a nice good read with pictures for the first few pages until you get to the listings overall excellent book MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malch Posted 1 December , 2009 Share Posted 1 December , 2009 DCM 1st Bars- France 1914 0 1915 15 1916 60 1917 61 1918 192 1919 102 Gallipoli 1916 1 Mesopotamia 1916 6 1917 8 1918 1 1919 2 Egypt 1917 1 1918 4 1919 5 East Africa 1916 1 1918 1 Italy 1918 4 1919 1 Russia (all commands) 1919 2 1920 3 Miscellaneous 1915-1920 2 Which is 472 M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27thBN Posted 2 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2009 Nice bit of work there I have cut and pasted into my research documents Thanks MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malch Posted 2 December , 2009 Share Posted 2 December , 2009 MC, There is a volume called "Official Statistics - being the Effort of the British Empire during the Great War" which I have a facsimile of. Reading the telephone directory for London is more stimulating, but it does have a huge number of tables of sometimes trivial, but sometimes useful, information. There is a similar list for all Medals and Decorations, including New Years Hons and Military OBE's etc., There is also the detail of how many pairs of socks were issued by the Army during the period 1st August 1914 and week ending 2nd June 1919. It was 122,437,525 pairs (worsted) to go with 40,020,074 pairs of boots (ankle). So that's 22,687.12 pairs of-boots and 69,409.28 pairs of socks per day. Now you know. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malch Posted 2 December , 2009 Share Posted 2 December , 2009 Some more.............. MM bars 1 2 3 France and Flanders 1916 175 1917 1216 18 1918 1788 60 1919 2527 102 1 1920 12 Balkans 1918 2 Egypt 1918 8 1919 4 East Africa 1919 1 Italy 1918 23 1919 15 Russia (all commands) 1919 5 1920 9 Miscellaneous 1915-1920 11 Totals 5796 180 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chats27 Posted 6 July , 2010 Share Posted 6 July , 2010 Some more.............. MM bars 1 2 3 France and Flanders 1916 175 1917 1216 18 1918 1788 60 1919 2527 102 1 1920 12 Balkans 1918 2 Egypt 1918 8 1919 4 East Africa 1919 1 Italy 1918 23 1919 15 Russia (all commands) 1919 5 1920 9 Miscellaneous 1915-1920 11 Totals 5796 180 3 Sir, Can I please ask where this information cam from? As I've listed 5600 first bars and 178 two bars. Please note the two bars and three bars are not included in the first bar total. So I make a total of 5785 first bars. Regards Ray medal-mounting@hotmail.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robins2 Posted 6 July , 2010 Share Posted 6 July , 2010 27thBN said: Nice bit of work there I have cut and pasted into my research documents Thanks MC may be of interest, Canadian DCM & 2 Bars , said to be the only Canadain awarded DCM & 2 Bars WW! Bob R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 10 July , 2010 Share Posted 10 July , 2010 Sir, Can I please ask where this information cam from? As I've listed 5600 first bars and 178 two bars. Please note the two bars and three bars are not included in the first bar total. So I make a total of 5785 first bars. Tephrite mentioned "Official Statistics - being the Effort of the British Empire during the Great War" in post # 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin Posted 11 July , 2010 Share Posted 11 July , 2010 I am aware that a 2nd Bar to a MM was issused to a West Yorkshire Man whilst in Italy. This does not show on the records above, how accurate are these??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Regards as alwas Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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