Remembering - a dilemma

[daggers]

Ten years ago I researched the names on the internal wall plaque and book of remembrance in the CofE church I attend, and found, as always, errors and some marked differences between the two lists. As the wall plaque has the names cut in stone and the book was beautifully calligraphed [?], there was no way of collating the two and I resorted to making a record of the CWGC entries and other material, for all those recorded. It is highly likely that the lists were the result of submissions to the vicar/churchwardens of the day, and so were probably all CofE.

Thanks to Geoff's excellent search engine, I have now found nearly 100 more names of those who lived in the parish area, but are not recorded locally, although some names are on the little-known and rather inaccessible Town Hall Roll of Honour.

The only other memorials I know of in the parish area are at a Methodist church opposite, and at two members' clubs.

I feel strongly that these 'new' names should be recorded locally, whether in the church or elsewhere, but would welcome any thoughts on how to go about it. There is no central, focal point for an outdoor memorial, and probably no money!

Meanwhile I have listed the 'new' names with CWGC details and will try to find family links.

Daggers

[KevinBattle]

I've come across similar situations locally and apart from drawing the updated Lists to the attention of local History Groups and the Councils, I think there is little more one can reasonably expect to be done, certainly for this Remembrance Sunday activities.

Why is the Town Hall Roll of Honour so inaccessible? Surely it could be in a display case in the reception foyer, at least for this weekend?

The reasons for the discrepancy can be many; There would probably have been a fund raising committee who may have applied standards that have been lost, for instance would a soldier dying at home from illness, such as influenza, which killed civilians and servicemen alike, have been considered eligible? Some RoH's were based on being "Killed in Action"; there may have been reasons to not include others; some may have not been put forward as their families were clinging on to the hope that they were "Missing" and would miraculously return having been in a coma in a German or British hospital unable to be identified. Putting their Name on a Memorial would destroy that hope. Others may have died of wounds after the Names had been collected, or the family have moved away from the district, after re-marriage of the widow.

My feeling is that as long as they are commemorated "somewhere" then they are not forgotten.

Have you had a chat with the vicar and suggested that the full list of Names be included in the Remembrance Day service, perhaps to be read out (by you if no one else volunteers!) so at least their sacrifice is remembered by the current congregation. It might stir up memories which you could add to bring these "Names" to life again.

I'm intrigued by you saying you have "new" Names, but that appears to have come from a Geoff's Search Engine trawl through the CWGC database, so how have you obtained Names which the CWGC don't have?

I've compiled my RoH's into Word or Excel documents so that there is a "potted" history of connection with the area concerned.

If you are seriously concerned, then contact your local newspaper; I'm sure it will be topical enough and appeal to them, as it offers a chance to sell more copies. If there is a local History Group, contact them to see what they may already have.

Well done for your concern. Maybe if you were to produce a "Calligraphy" version on your computer, it might be worth the Council printing it on quality paper for inclusion as a "Supplement" to the "Official" Roll of Honour.

Good luck!

[daggers]

KevinW

Thanks for your comments. I agree with much of what you say.

Dealing first with the Town Hall, there is a fine Hall of Remembrance within the building, with framed, printed panels of over 13,000 names displayed in loosely alphabetical order. They were compiled from relatives' requests and contain many inaccuracies and some duplication. Name, rank and unit are shown, but no addresses or other geographical clues. The Town Hall has the council chamber and other rooms for functions etc, but not the council offices, so the public is not often passing through except on specific open days.

Next, the vicar has now agreed that the 'new' names should be displayed in church on Sunday, and attention will be drawn via the hand-out sheet of notices. I think that if the 'new names' are read out we should have to read the 'old' names - 148 in number - as well and this would throw the timing of the well-established order of service!

The 'new' or previously unrecorded names were obtained by putting the name of the parish 'Aigburth' into Geoff's engine and then printing off the result from CWGC lists. These men may have lived in the parish but had no church link and so were not recorded when the memorials were compiled by the vicar or committee.

Subject to other comments, I realise that there is not enough time to do more for this year's Remembrance, but still welcome thoughts for the longer term.

Thanks again

D

[spoons]

I think a book would resolve the issue.

I have seen several books written in the last couple of years that cover all the memorials in a town or parish and then conclude with biographical details of men with a connection to the area but are not listed.

Are you up for writing a book? If not, how about the local FHS, would they take it on?

\Spoons

[Stephen Nulty]

Welcome to my world !

170-ish names on the memorial, 300+ so far found and counting.

Build a website for 'em!

[bts1970]

I had a similar problem when i started my research. I would never wish nor expect the War Memorial to be changed to reflect names not currently listed as there may be a number of reasons why they were not included on the origional structure. (A topic discussed at length many times)

The booklet i produced researched those listed on the memorial as well as having a seperate section detailing those who were not listed, this was also put on the WEB site as well.

This Sunday i will be at the Memorial handing out details of those listed on the memorial as well as those not included who should be remembered as well.

Best regards

Bob

[LesCroft]

My local memorial doesn't have names. The local church has a memorial inside but only for the soldiers who waws part of that congregation. The local newspaper who reported his death at the time said his name would appear in the local congretational roll of honour but these days no one has any idea where the roll of honour is or if it ever existed.

My Great Great Uncle doesn't ahve his name anywhere.

[daggers]

Thanks all round for your interest and comments.

Book? Compilation does not deter, but the 'business' side of it does not appeal with an unknown take-up rate.

Website? Possible but lack of technical knowhow is the main problem here.

Local FHS? Covers a wider area even than the city of Liverpool, so one of many parishes/suburban districts is unlikely to be supported by the majority, widespread membership.

Still listening!

D

[bts1970]

WEB site i sorted using Mr Site (£30), just put you research down on a word document & cut / paste it all in. I was by no means a computer wiz & managed it fairly easy.(My site is at the bottom of my posts, other similar sites use the same / similar providers)

Booklet, just got the local printer to help out with the setup after i got it all down on word documents, local buisness paid for the initial print run & that was that, managed to sell over 120 copies as a privately researched & financed venture (78 pages). The local Historical Society may help but mine were not that intrested as they believed what was already known was the whole story ......... it wasn`t but they still don`t talk to me.

Good luck

Bob