8th Battalion AIF, George Cumming

[heybarty]

Hi everyone, and thanks for having me. I am doing my family tree and have been researching my Grandfather, George Cumming. I found his war record on line, but it has a number of confusing parts to it that I hope someone may be able to help me with.

His Attestation sheet shows two service numbers, and his regiment is different to that in which he served, as far as I can tell. His service number 2945 has been crossed out and replaced by 2937. His Unit is shown as 9th Reinforcements, 21st Battalion, yet all other documents show 9th Reinforcements, 8th Battalion. He enlisted on the 3rd of July in Melbourne, he being a Footscray man.

Another confusing issue is that I found his record at the Australian National Archives with service number 2937, but the Australian War Memorial online site has him listed on the embarkation roll with the 2945 number and Nominal Roll with the 2937 number!

The records show that he embarked from Melbourne Victoria on the Makarini on the 15th of September 1915, as part of 9th reinf. 8th Batt, although handwritten in his record it states 8th not 9th reinforcements!

I am assuming he was transferred to the 8th Battalion. I cannot tell whether he served at Gallipoli, although on his casualty sheet the first line reads

Date : 11/12/15,

from : O/C 8th Battalion,

Promotion transfer etc: "Joined from 8th Reinforcements"

Place "ANZAC"

Date 7/12/15

The first mention of any duty is "Wounded in Action", in France, on the 25th July 1916. He received a gun shot wound to the head, stated as severe, and was evntually sent to England to recooperate. I'm told he had a plate put in his head, although there is some debate about that.

I realise this is pretty murky, but I am new to all this so please throw me a line. I would love to know

Why he would have been transferred? Discipline, luck of the draw??

What company etc he actually served in

Where he was wounded (my guess is Pozieres)

Can I get hold of his medical records?

All and any other details or possible directions to find out more details.

Apparently he was a devout christian and lay preacher in late life, and I wonder if it may have been his experiences in the war that set him on that path, or whether he was that way inclined prior to joining. My dad is long gone and George's only surviving daughter has difficulty with her memory, so any extra assistance would be greatly appreciated.

I dont know that George was any great hero, to anyone but his family of course, but we are proud of the sacrifices he made for us, and would like to know more if possible.

Now if I have this in the wrong area or have made any blunders, I pray your forgiveness and guidance.

Cheers from Australia!

[Tony Ring]

Hi everyone, and thanks for having me. I am doing my family tree and have been researching my Grandfather, George Cumming. I found his war record on line, but it has a number of confusing parts to it that I hope someone may be able to help me with.

His Attestation sheet shows two service numbers, and his regiment is different to that in which he served, as far as I can tell. His service number 2945 has been crossed out and replaced by 2937. His Unit is shown as 9th Reinforcements, 21st Battalion, yet all other documents show 9th Reinforcements, 8th Battalion. He enlisted on the 3rd of July in Melbourne, he being a Footscray man.

Another confusing issue is that I found his record at the Australian National Archives with service number 2937, but the Australian War Memorial online site has him listed on the embarkation roll with the 2945 number and Nominal Roll with the 2937 number!

The records show that he embarked from Melbourne Victoria on the Makarini on the 15th of September 1915, as part of 9th reinf. 8th Batt, although handwritten in his record it states 8th not 9th reinforcements!

I am assuming he was transferred to the 8th Battalion. I cannot tell whether he served at Gallipoli, although on his casualty sheet the first line reads

Date :11/12/15,

from /C 8th Battalion,

Promotion transfer etc:"Joined from 8th Reinforcements"

Place "ANZAC"

Date 7/12/15

The first mention of any duty is "Wounded in Action", in France, on the 25th July 1916. He received a gun shot wound to the head, stated as severe, and was evntually sent to England to recooperate. I'm told he had a plate put in his head, although there is some debate about that.

I realise this is pretty murky, but I am new to all this so please throw me a line. I would love to know

Why he would have been transferred? Discipline, luck of the draw??

What company etc he actually served in

Where he was wounded (my guess is Pozieres)

Can I get hold of his medical records?

All and any other details or possible directions to find out more details.

Apparently he was a devout christian and lay preacher in late life, and I wonder if it may have been his experiences in the war that set him on that path, or whether he was that way inclined prior to joining. My dad is long gone and George's only surviving daughter has difficulty with her memory, so any extra assistance would be greatly appreciated.

I dont know that George was any great hero, to anyone but his family of course, but we are proud of the sacrifices he made for us, and would like to know more if possible.

Now if I have this in the wrong area or have made any blunders, I pray your forgiveness and guidance.

Cheers from Australia!

Barty

Welcome from across the ditch.

The forum is a wealth of information and I am positive someone here will able to help you out.

Tony

[Waddell]

Welcome to the forum Barty.

The 8th Battalion AIF were at Pozieres on the day he was wounded.

8th Battalion AIF war diary is available online. Here is July 1916

http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/AWM4/23/AWM4-23-25-19.pdf

A book you might want to look out for is Ron Austin's "Cobbers in Khaki-The history of the 8th Battalion 1914-18". Available from Slouch Hat Press if your library doesn't have it.

Can't help with the service numbers although they do seem to change a bit having looked at a few files. Reinforcements didn't necessarily go the the Battalion they enlisted with if they were short on men and needed elsewhere.

I suspect there will be a few more Aussies along to help you. Prepare yourself for a bit of reading if you do research his movements.

Scott.

[heybarty]

Thanks for that link Waddell, fantastic that this stauff is available.

Is there any way to track a man down to his company, or is that something that constantly changed?

With regard to Grandad's service number, and this might be way off target, but I note that the two numbers are 5 apart.

His best mate, Gordon E Hooker, who enlisted the same day, also has two service numbers, one crossed out, 5 apart from each other.

Its like there may have been some ammendment made on the day they enlisted?

[frev]

Hi Barty – and welcome to the forum.

Probably can’t help you much more than you appear to have worked out for yourself!

Service records are often full of confusion & errors – but the clerks did a pretty good job generally – considering there was a war on!

In your grandfather’s case it seems that the service no’s have everyone so confused I notice they often included them both in his records - just to be sure.

However, the service no. was actually allotted to the men on Embarkation (not enlistment) – and your grandfather was given the no. 2945 on embarkation (so that’s the no. that appears on the Embarkation roll). For whatever reason it was changed – it would then appear on the Nominal Roll as the new no. 2937 (because these rolls were made up after the war ended). Same goes for the Nat Archives (they are working with the new no.)

As to his Unit, although he was initially allotted to the 9th Reinforcements of the 21st Bn, he was as you say transferred to the 9th Reinf of the 8th Bn who he sailed with (there could have been many reasons for this but I doubt ‘discipline’ would be one of them). The hand written 8th Reinf could mean that he was originally allotted to them, but held back for the 9th – or could simply be an error. [the 8th Reinf sailed for Egypt a couple of weeks before]

The important thing is that he sailed with the 9th Reinforcements of the 8th Bn & joined the 8th Bn on the 7/12/1915 at Anzac (Gallipoli) – [which by the way was the same day that the British War Cabinet made the decision to evacuate Anzac] – where he served until the night of the 18/12/1915 when the 8th Bn was evacuated. [Note: Both the 8th & 9th Reinforcements arrived at Gallipoli together]

He was as you guessed, wounded at Pozieres in the attack made by the 8th Bn, which began in the early hours of the morning of the 25th July.

Tracing which Company he served with won’t be easy – you may be lucky enough to find reference to it in a diary, letter etc. The only mention of him in the Unit History “Cobbers in Khaki” is in the Reinforcements List.

Usually any medical records that are readily available are included in the service file.

Just curious to know how far back you have traced your Cumming line – and whether they may perhaps have hailed from around Wigtownshire in Scotland?

All the best with your search.

Cheers, Frev

[heybarty]

Thanks for your help Frev. I will have to get hold of a copy of "Cobbers in Khaki". Sounds like it could be a great read. So 12 days at Gallipoli hey? Well I dare say that would have been a fair "welcome to the war" for George. Thanks for sorting out the messy message I posted, the information is greatly appreciated.

My Cumming has been traced back as far as the mid 17th Century, so far. My lot seem to be based around the Gareloch, Rosneath Peninsula, Dunbarton, Stirling, Renfrew, Argyll and Bute shires, but were scattered a bit. Might we have some connection do you think?

I didn't realise I could find so much genealogy info from the war records. It has been a great help, and I can see I have barely scratched the surface.

Thanks again fdor the advice.