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Newfoundland Regiment post Beaumont - Hamel


scotsfolk
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Can anyone tell me where the surviving soldiers of the Newfoundland Regiment were late 1917 - 1919?

I'm trying to work out where and when a Dundee lass, Jenny Beatt met her future husband, William Chatman. She arrived in Halifax 1919 and states that she's going to Bonavista to be married.

As the Black Watch were also at Beaumont - Hamel that may be the link. Dundee is strong Black Watch territory.

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scotsfolk

Welcome to the Forum !

You could try Archives Canada for refs to the Newfoundlands R:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/index-e.html

You should look for the War Dairy of the battalion ( I think it is the 1st battalion) and it may show their arrival in the UK from canada and where they went in preparation before they shipped out to France.

Sotonmate

They were also with a British Division,the 29th,and of 88 Brigade until April 1918,so there should be a War Diary at Kew in the WO95 series. I have an idea it is WO95/2307 but can't check it tonight as I think Kew is doing some computer maintenance.

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scotsfolk

William Chatman was a Royal Newfoundland Regt soldier,his number was 2212. He probably had a brother,Albert Chatman,also in the same regiment,number 2278,who was killed at B-Hamel on 20.11.1917. He was from Bunyan's Cove,Bonavista Bay.

Sotonmate

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Sotonmate,

Many thanks for the info about the regiment. I have the info about William and his brother Albert. (There was another brother, John who joined up in America.) I seem to have exhausted the general online info, so need to do some snail mail enquiries.

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scotsfolk

William Chatman was a Royal Newfoundland Regt soldier,his number was 2212. He probably had a brother,Albert Chatman,also in the same regiment,number 2278,who was killed at B-Hamel on 20.11.1917. He was from Bunyan's Cove,Bonavista Bay.

Sotonmate

He would not have been killed at BH - Cambrai, maybe.

The 2nd Bn was based in Perth - always a reinforcement battalion and drafts sent to the 1st Bn from there.

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He would not have been killed at BH - Cambrai, maybe.

The 2nd Bn was based in Perth - always a reinforcement battalion and drafts sent to the 1st Bn from there.

Thanks. His name is on the B-H War Memorial which is why I mistakenly thought that was where he was killed! Sorry!

I have, at last, located the War Diaries and am awaiting delivery of them online.

WO95/2308

WO95/4312

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The war diaries are

WO95/2308 direct download £3.50

WO95/4312 direct download £3.50

WO95/1775 Digital Express £8.50

I am not too sure how useful the WDs will be - they do not name new members of drafts etc. I would have thought, from his number, that he was a reinforcement - ie not in the first detachment sent to war (in this case, first seeing active service in Gallipoli). Thus he probably went to Perth first and was shipped out from there. After the German offensive of 1918 (in this case the latter stages of the Battle of the Lys in later April) the Battalion was taken out of the line (and left the 29th Division), retuning in September 1918 to take part in the Advance to Victory (starting in the Salient) but this time as part of the 9th (Scottish) Division.

They have an excellent regimental history - The Fighting Newfoundlander - by Nicholson; and which has fairly recently been republished.

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Scotsfolk. The Newfoundland Regiment's depot was in Ayr so that might be your connection. There were a few lasses who made the trip here after the war!

You might try the website Newfoundland Grand Banks, which has a lot of info:

http://ngb.chebucto.org/

Ed

PS I have been to Bunyan's Cove!

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I am not too sure how useful the WDs will be - they do not name new members of drafts etc. I would have thought, from his number, that he was a reinforcement - ie not in the first detachment sent to war (in this case, first seeing active service in Gallipoli). Thus he probably went to Perth first and was shipped out from there. After the German offensive of 1918 (in this case the latter stages of the Battle of the Lys in later April) the Battalion was taken out of the line (and left the 29th Division), retuning in September 1918 to take part in the Advance to Victory (starting in the Salient) but this time as part of the 9th (Scottish) Division.

They have an excellent regimental history - The Fighting Newfoundlander - by Nicholson; and which has fairly recently been republished.

Nigel, I didn't expect to find the names of new members of a draft, but from what I've seen the documents are fascinating nonetheless.

(My grandfather, a Black Watch soldier, was captured at the Cambrian front in 1918, so I'm interested in what was happening at the time.)

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Scotsfolk. The Newfoundland Regiment's depot was in Ayr so that might be your connection. There were a few lasses who made the trip here after the war!

You might try the website Newfoundland Grand Banks, which has a lot of info:

http://ngb.chebucto.org/

Ed

PS I have been to Bunyan's Cove!

Eric, I have information about the Chatman brothers from the site, which is what started my interest in the Regiment.

Albert Chatman was a stretcher bearer who was killed in action near Marcoing on 20 November 1917 in France. Having no known grave, he is commemorated by name on the Beaumont Hamel (Newfoundland) Memorial in France. He is also commemorated on the war memorial in Bunyan's Cove.

Although the Regiment depot was in Ayr, I think it's more likely that they met in Dundee or Perth.

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Nigel, I didn't expect to find the names of new members of a draft, but from what I've seen the documents are fascinating nonetheless.

(My grandfather, a Black Watch soldier, was captured at the Cambrian front in 1918, so I'm interested in what was happening at the time.)

I think that Perth was the Depot of the Black Watch (but that's based on a fading memory); the BW also had a Dundee connection as well. So, I think the connection in all probability is via the 2nd Battalion, when your man was in it as part of the reinforcements for the 1st Bn. Quite right - the WDs are good - but there again, so is Nicholson - I am away from my books but more or less 500 pages on, effectively, one battalion (though there are parts on the 2nd and Forestry troops) and some good maps to go with it. I see on a certain well know book sales web site you can get it for about $30.

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I think that Perth was the Depot of the Black Watch (but that's based on a fading memory); the BW also had a Dundee connection as well. So, I think the connection in all probability is via the 2nd Battalion, when your man was in it as part of the reinforcements for the 1st Bn. Quite right - the WDs are good - but there again, so is Nicholson - I am away from my books but more or less 500 pages on, effectively, one battalion (though there are parts on the 2nd and Forestry troops) and some good maps to go with it. I see on a certain well know book sales web site you can get it for about $30.

Nigel, the Black Watch museum is at Balhousie Castle, Perth.

The Black Watch is very much a Tayside regiment. Perth, Dundee, Fife etc. My grandfather was taken prisoner on 21st March 1918, fighting in the 6th Black Watch, with the 51st Highland Division.

Once I've sorted out the Dundee/Bunyan's Cove mystery for my friend I'll look for more info about the Black Watch link! Research - like Topsy just grows and grows!

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Nigel, the Black Watch museum is at Balhousie Castle, Perth.

The Black Watch is very much a Tayside regiment. Perth, Dundee, Fife etc. My grandfather was taken prisoner on 21st March 1918, fighting in the 6th Black Watch, with the 51st Highland Division.

Once I've sorted out the Dundee/Bunyan's Cove mystery for my friend I'll look for more info about the Black Watch link! Research - like Topsy just grows and grows!

Ed (Post 9) is quite right about Ayr now I come to think about it - put it down to fading memory and anno domini; which puts it more than a hop and a skip from Perth (and even further from Dundee). On the other hand, there is something niggling about Perth and 2/Nfd.

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Ed (Post 9) is quite right about Ayr now I come to think about it - put it down to fading memory and anno domini; which puts it more than a hop and a skip from Perth (and even further from Dundee). On the other hand, there is something niggling about Perth and 2/Nfd.

Nigel, niggle away. I'm sure it will come to the surface eventually, and who knows it may just provide the missing link to Jenny Beatt, (Dundee) and William Chatman, Bunyan's Cove, Nfl.

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The Newfoundlanders were transferred to the 9th (Scottish) Division, replacing the South African Brigade - I think Sept 1918 - and fought with them through to the war's end. I'm typing from memory, but I guess they then went onto Cologne with the occupation forces, of which the 9th Div were part.

Needless to say the Black Watch had a battalion in the division - 26th Highland Brigade - not the same brigade as the Newfoundlanders, but same division nevertheless.

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Newfoundland Forestry Corps was also in Scotland. I have found they were at least one point near Craigvinean, which Google tells me is not far from Dundee.

Perhaps you connection. The boys are fighting now so must be off...

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Have you seen this from the Newfoundland Grand Banks?:

Pte William Chatman Regt # 2212 (Donated by Jaunita Jacobs)

Bunyan's Cove, Bonavista Bay, NF Fisherman, 21 years, 9 months Son of William & Olivour CHATMAN Enlisted March 2, 1916, witnessed by Attesting Officer Lieut. R.P. Holloway Embarked St. John's S.S. Sicilian for UK March 24, 1916 Wounded April 14, 1917 Left Arm Demobilization St. John's January 26,1919 Served 2 years 331 days

It is said that Uncle Bill was the first of the three CHATMAN brothers to join the the war effort. A few weeks later his oldest brother Uncle Albert CHATMAN joined; while a third brother Uncle John CHATMAN, who was in Boston at the time, joined the US Navy. PTE. JOHN CHATMAN served in the American Navy during WWI & WWII.

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  • 2 months later...
Have you seen this from the Newfoundland Grand Banks?:

Pte William Chatman Regt # 2212 (Donated by Jaunita Jacobs)

Bunyan's Cove, Bonavista Bay, NF Fisherman, 21 years, 9 months Son of William & Olivour CHATMAN Enlisted March 2, 1916, witnessed by Attesting Officer Lieut. R.P. Holloway Embarked St. John's S.S. Sicilian for UK March 24, 1916 Wounded April 14, 1917 Left Arm Demobilization St. John's January 26,1919 Served 2 years 331 days

It is said that Uncle Bill was the first of the three CHATMAN brothers to join the the war effort. A few weeks later his oldest brother Uncle Albert CHATMAN joined; while a third brother Uncle John CHATMAN, who was in Boston at the time, joined the US Navy. PTE. JOHN CHATMAN served in the American Navy during WWI & WWII.

Many thanks for your help. In the intervening few months I have been contacted by a relative of William Chatman, via a post on the Grand Banks forum. We now have the answer to my initial question. - see below

"Can anyone tell me where the surviving soldiers of the Newfoundland Regiment were late 1917 - 1919?

I'm trying to work out where and when a Dundee lass, Jenny Beatt met her future husband, William Chatman. She arrived in Halifax 1919 and states that she's going to Bonavista to be married.

As the Black Watch were also at Beaumont - Hamel that may be the link. Dundee is strong Black Watch territory."

It would appear that Jenny Beatt was sent home from South Africa to complete her education and, whilst in Dundee, met her future husband, William Chatman who was convalescing after being seriously injured in April 1917 at Vimy Ridge!

Now to find out where war injured were sent to convalesce in the Dundee area! The hunt goes on.

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If he was wounded 14th April 1917 and was in the Newfoundland Reg. then it was not on Vimy Ridge but in a rather disastrous attack from the new line east of Monchy le Preux. It was yet another occasion where the Newfoundlanders were asked the impossible and were almost wiped out.

Jim

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