4thGordons Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 Can any of the experts identify this medal ribbon on an RFC Sgt - photo dated July 4th 1918. Apologies for the quality - its the best I can manage. Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItemCo16527 Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 Looks like the Africa General Service Medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 I'll second that Jeff. Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgibbs Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 I don't wish to appear contencious but am just thinking aloud, if you'll allow. Bearing in mind that in most of the photos I have of WW1 soldiers the WW1 war medal yellow ribbon comes out almost black, could this be the case here, in which case I would suggest maybe the India General Service Medal? I could be mis-judging the method of photography used, and agree that the AGS is certainly a good match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 The proportions are wrong for any of the IGS medals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 I agree - there are too many stripes for any Indian General Service Medal applicable to the period. The 1902 AGS is a strong contender; the interior stripes are too narrow for it to be a Military Medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 Perhaps a Naval General Service Medal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 Perhaps a Naval General Service Medal? That's certainly a possible from the pattern and shad eof the ribbon, but weighing the probabilities, probably not? The medal (NGS) was instituted in 1915 retrospective to 1909 (for the clasp Persian Gulf 1909-14); perhaps a serving sailor would have been more likely to transfer to the RNAS. Whereas, the AGS started in 1902 and campaigns were running right up to - and into - the outbreak of war. I'm not sure - as I'm away from my copy of "British Battles and Medals" if the RFC qualified for any AGS 02 bars in their own right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItemCo16527 Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 Here are the ribbons for the AGSM and NGSM together for comparison. I'm still thinking the ribbon in question is an AGSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 I agree AGS Medal; probably for service with the Royal Navy as most pre War awards where to UK recipients{Somalialand 1908/10 springs to mind...} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 21 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2009 I agree AGS Medal; probably for service with the Royal Navy as most pre War awards where to UK recipients{Somalialand 1908/10 springs to mind...} Thanks very much everyone. Much appreciated Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgibbs Posted 21 October , 2009 Share Posted 21 October , 2009 It was only a thought, based on what I've seen from so many of the WW1 war medals I've seen For some reason, without reference to the actual ribbon [since I'm away from home all week] I'd thought about the just pre KGV IGS having narrow stripes, but I guess I was wrong. Anyway, as I said, this phenomenon of yellow turning out dark could be only with certain light conditions or anything, but I'm sure I'd noticed it. Nice to know there's so much medal interest anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 21 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2009 It was only a thought, based on what I've seen from so many of the WW1 war medals I've seen For some reason, without reference to the actual ribbon [since I'm away from home all week] I'd thought about the just pre KGV IGS having narrow stripes, but I guess I was wrong. Anyway, as I said, this phenomenon of yellow turning out dark could be only with certain light conditions or anything, but I'm sure I'd noticed it. Nice to know there's so much medal interest anyway! Actually it's not a lighting phenomenon per se - it is the sort of film often used. During the Great War most film used was ORTHOGRAPHIC - that is responds to the blue/green end of the light spectrum so colours outside that (yellow/red) are rendered dark (this is also why skin tones are often darker). Modern B/W film is PANCHROMATIC - that is responding to the whole visible light spectrum giving a more "realistic" rendering. The most obvious Great War example of this (and somthing I run into a lot ) is the "Disappearing yellow stripe" in Gordon tartan. Because the gold/yellow is rendered dark in othochromatic film the stripe "disappears" in photographs giving the impression of an all dark kilt. I tried to duplicate this digitally on a thread on here but I can't find it at the mo' Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 22 October , 2009 Share Posted 22 October , 2009 I'm not sure - as I'm away from my copy of "British Battles and Medals" if the RFC qualified for any AGS 02 bars in their own right? The most common AGS bars date from before the formation of the RFC. Somalialand 1902/04 & Somalialand 1908/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 22 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 22 October , 2009 Here is the complete picture. One thought occurs - the subject (groom?) would appear to me to be rather too young for much pre war service given that the photo is dated (in what looks to be writing contemporary to the picture) July 4th 1918. There is a Banbury photographers stamp but no other identifying marks. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_harvey Posted 22 October , 2009 Share Posted 22 October , 2009 Here is the complete picture. One thought occurs - the subject (groom?) would appear to me to be rather too young for much pre war service given that the photo is dated (in what looks to be writing contemporary to the picture) July 4th 1918. There is a Banbury photographers stamp but no other identifying marks. Chris He could have been a boy sailor? still looks about 30 in the photo so could have been an adult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 22 October , 2009 Share Posted 22 October , 2009 The Somalialand 1902/04 clasp was awarded to several men from a smattering of British army regiments. The NGS is a remoter possibility, but there were some RN men who ended up in the RFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 23 October , 2009 Share Posted 23 October , 2009 The most common AGS bars date from before the formation of the RFC. Somalialand 1902/04 & Somalialand 1908/10. Indeed true - as is the case for 'Jidballi' (always paired with Somaliland 1908-10) but there were some (rarer) dated WW1 bars, viz: 'EAST AFRICA 1915', 'EAST AFRICA 1918', 'JUBALAND 1917-18', 'SHIMBER BERRIS 1914-15', 'NYASALAND 1915' ...so I was simply postulating it may have been one of these - if any were awarded to the RFC (although granted the date of the photo probably rules out the 1918 bars). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 23 October , 2009 Share Posted 23 October , 2009 To be honest, without the closeup I would have said Mililtary Medal.... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 23 October , 2009 Share Posted 23 October , 2009 'EAST AFRICA 1915', 'EAST AFRICA 1918', 'JUBALAND 1917-18', 'SHIMBER BERRIS 1914-15', 'NYASALAND 1915' The less common bars were usually for actions where the forces were generally African troops and a few European Officers. None appear to have had air cover, which for the earlier bars would have been more likely to have been provided by the RNAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 24 October , 2009 Share Posted 24 October , 2009 A Contemptible Little Flying Corps, has a list of men service numbers and decorations, quite a few IGSMs. The date of the list I think is at the outbreak of war. You may be able to cross ref this list with service records to Identify him. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupertx Posted 25 October , 2009 Share Posted 25 October , 2009 Post E & W Africa medal ? Other than that I agree with the concensus about it being Africa Gen service 1902 -56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 A Contemptible Little Flying Corps only lists the first 1,400 + special reserves. He could have earned it but transferred in later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 27 October , 2009 Share Posted 27 October , 2009 Post E & W Africa medal ? Probably, unless he was in his late 30s and if he was a regular with over 20 years service I'd expect to see more indications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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