SiegeGunner Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Today's Daily Mail (which I hasten to say I have only bought for the 'free' DVD of The Graduate) quotes the grandson of Pte Ievers, who laid the wreath concerned: "Drunken idiot. It was a stupid thing to do, but I doubt he remembers it. He must have been out of his tiny mind. I don't think he should be flogged in the streets, but there should be some reparation." But of course it's a free country, so self-appointed zealots are perfectly at liberty to call for more draconian punishment than the man who has most reason to be outraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCurragh Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Sorry am I missing something here I thought this thread was about a poor innocent lad caught urinating over a WW1 War Memorial not Boyzone whoever or whatever they are. Norman This is Skindles - threads can go anywhere members wish to take them - keeping in mind the forum rules of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 17 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Post 101 Like you I would NEVER buy the DM unless of course there is a free DVD included. Even better tomorrow (Sunday) the Sunday Times will include a free DVD of The Motorcycle Diaries in my opinion an excellent film. On the subject of the guy (or victim) who inadvertently urinated over the war memorial I agree that a too harsh punishment (community service etc) would be far too traumatic for him and could lead to PTSD in later life which none of us would wish on him. I believe that the best course of action would be a gentle and non-threatening chat with a trained counsellor followed by a fortnight’s holiday somewhere warm and accompanied by qualified social workers before he returns to the stressful world of sports technology. Regards Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 I understand the complaints to the Press Complaints Commission are heading for record numbers, mine among them. It has offended so many people for so many reasons. Looking at the PCC website, I see it has now added a special link for complaints about the vile Jan Moir piece. PCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 17 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Ecellent I will e-mail them immediately. Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Sorry am I missing something here I thought this thread was about a poor innocent lad caught urinating over a WW1 War Memorial not Boyzone whoever or whatever they are. Norman Norman, No one to my knowledege has posted a response on this thread which makes the student out to be innocent. Everyone has condemned the behaviour of this drunken student. Posters have differed in their views of the causes of it and punishments deserved as a consequence of it, but unanimously, everyone has said he was wrong to do it. Posts of yours like the one I have quoted, and those at #92 & #97 do not add anything to the debate of any value and to be quite frank, you're better than that. Bringing in mention of the death of Stephen Gately as commented on in the Daily Mail to the thread was done, in my view, to illustrate that with this particular newspaper the reader will always start a long way behind the line as far as a moderate viewpoint is concerned. Perhaps it is time to let Private Ievers' Grandson have the final word on it, after all, he is more directly concerned with this than any of us. Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 On the subject of the guy (or victim) who inadvertently urinated over the war memorial I agree that a too harsh punishment (community service etc) would be far too traumatic for him and could lead to PTSD in later life which none of us would wish on him. I believe that the best course of action would be a gentle and non-threatening chat with a trained counsellor followed by a fortnight’s holiday somewhere warm and accompanied by qualified social workers before he returns to the stressful world of sports technology. None of us are saying this, and I happen to think that referring to PTSD as something nebulous you get if you're misunderstood is rather cheap, especially as members of this forum are known to suffer from it as a result of their experience in the armed services or the civilian emergency services. I think many of us are asking for this distasteful act to be viewed with a sense of proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salfordian Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 No - as my post makes perfectly clear I have been convinced by the arguments put forward by many posters for example:- It was not his fault He did not know what he was doing The Daily Mail is a Rag The photo was a setup Carnage are to blame This is what "freshers do" Lots of people have urinated on war memorials This one just happened to be photographed He has apologized The defiling of the memorial was incidental The poppy wreaths just happened to be there How do you think we beat old jerry twice What a load of froth (well that is true) He will learn from it The student is clearly mortified by his behavior A sense of proportion is called for Etc Who could not be convinced of this lads innocence, he was so obviously a victim. Norman I have set up a fighting fund for him. I have found forgiveness in my cold granite like heart ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 The punishment should be that he is made to pay for a total clean up of the war memorial and replace all the poppy wreaths out of his own pocket. One of the biggest problems with this country is that the punishments do not fit the crimes. If this lad is made an example of it will send out a message that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated. I've been smashed out of my face many times but I truly believe that anyone who is 'smashed' still maintains self awareness and they can identify right/wrong. If he really was as drunk as he claims he was he wouldn't of pulled his underwear down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 17 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Salfordian, I am very pleased and indeed encouraged that you have undergone a similar sea-change in your opinions as I have. I will of course be only too happy to contribute to any fighting fund you may set up to defend the poor student. I believe that many posters here have totally misunderstood some of my comments, for as the instigator of this thread my first reaction was to remove the students various “dangly bits” and stuff them somewhere that the sun does not shine. However I have been convinced by some of the erudite and intellectual remarks subsequently made by members and quoted by me and I can see that my original attitude was indeed wrong. My current opinion is that this young gentleman was a victim of our booze culture, education system, parenting, soft policing and finally the Carnage organisation which took advantage of his many shortcomings. I stand by my previous comment regarding the input of social workers and indeed trauma counselling for if the Daily Mail had not been so diligent with the pixilation of the photo there was a very real danger of his sexual organs being exposed to view and at his age if this is not a cause of PTSD then I do not know what is. My thoughts are with him and his parents at this difficult time Regards Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 me thinks that you like him are taking the P*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Even better tomorrow (Sunday) the Sunday Times will include a free DVD of The Motorcycle Diaries Thanks for that, Norman. I have a defective paid-for DVD of that film and no receipt to take it back, so this is most opportune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 17 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2009 me thinks that you like him are taking the P*** Steve what an unfortunate turn of phrase considering the topic. No I am extremely serious in my opinions and only wish that I had not e-mailed both the University and Nick Clegg stating my previously held and I see now incorrect views. As further proof of my sincerity I am awaiting details of the "fighting fund" in order that I may contribute a not inconsiderable sum. Best Wishes Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 You seem to have considerable difficulty in accepting that others might hold views that don't conincide with your own - did you think that there would be unanimous agreement when you first started the thread? To let your comments descend to the level of five-year-olds thumbing their noses in the playground is hardly a sign of the maturity that you're expecting this student to have shown. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 17 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2009 I regret that you appear to totally disbelieve my sincerity in this matter. I see this as more a problem for you than myself however. There really is nothing more that I can say with regard to my genuine opinion on this subject. Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Thanks for that, Norman. I have a defective paid-for DVD of that film and no receipt to take it back, so this is most opportune. You do come out with 'em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Thompson Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Although dispicable I think the lad as had the most sevrest of punishments know to mankind, and we all know what that is. Yes the most sevrest of tongue lashing and b********s from his mum. I will leave it at that. Cheers Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Although dispicable I think the lad as had the most sevrest of punishments know to mankind, and we all know what that is. Yes the most sevrest of tongue lashing and b********s from his mum. I will leave it at that. Cheers Roger. Yes, he will probably suffer for the next few years over this one and is marked for his time at uni, if not by his fellow students, but the powers that be that maybe keeping an eye on his behaviour. A bad lad that will see the errors of his ways in the end, with a bit of luck. The knee jerk reaction is to fall on him like a ton of bricks, though I dare say the negative picture being portrayed will have affected this daft young pup. Maybe into thinking about this subject a little more seriously. One can only hope. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Use differences in a positive way. try to get energy, from different opinions. Make dialogue, that is the proper way to solve problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Before people conclude that England has suddenly gone to the dogs, consider that according to Dickens's Dictionary of London by Charles Dickens (Jr.) in 1879, that young man broke several of the following laws: Nuisances. — A few of the desagremens to which metropolitan flesh is heir have been legally settled to be “nuisances”. (a) THE FOLLOWING WILL be summarily suppressed on appeal to the nearest police-constable: Abusive language; Advertisements, carriage of (except in form approved); Areas left open without sufficient fence. Baiting animals; Betting in streets; Bonfires in streets; Books, obscene, selling in streets. Carpet-beating; Carriage, obstruction by; Cattle, careless driving of; Coals, unloading, between prohibited hours; Cock-fighting; Crossings in streets, obstructing. Defacing buildings; Deposit of goods in streets ; Dogs loose or mad; Doors, knocking at; Drunk and disorderly persons; Dust, removal of, between 10 am, and 7 p.m. Exercising horses to annoyance of persons; Exposing goods for sale in parks. Firearms, discharging; Fireworks, throwing in streets; Footways, obstructions on; Footways unswept; Furious driving; Furniture, fraudulent removal of between 8 p.m. and 6 am, Games, playing in streets. Indecent exposure. Lamps, extinguishing. Mat-shaking after 8 a.m; Musicians in streets. Obscene singing; Offensive matters, removal of, between 6 am. and 12 night. Posting bills without consent; projections from houses to cause annoyance. Reins, persons driving without; Ringing door bells without excuse; Rubbish lying in thoroughfare. Slides, making in streets; Stone-throwing. Unlicensed public carriage. (b ) THE FOLLOWING WILL require an application to the police-courts: Cesspools, foul. Dead body, infectious, retained in room where persons live; Disease, person suffering from infectious, riding in public carriage, or exposing himself, or being without proper accommodation; Disorderly houses; Drains, foul. Factory, unclean or overcrowded. Furnace in manufactory not consuming its own smoke; Food unfit for consumption, exposing. Gaming houses. House filthy or injurious to health. Infected bedding or clothes, sale of. Letting infected house or room; Lotteries. Manufactures (making sulphuric acid, steeping skins, &c.); Manure, non-removal of; Milk, exposing, unfit for consumption. Obstructions in highways, bridges, or rivers; Overcrowding of house. Powder magazine, or keeping too large a quantity. Theatres, unlicensed; Trades, offensive (keeping pigs, soap-house, slaughter-house, or manufactures in trade causing effluvia, &c.). Want of reparation of highway; Warehousing inflammable materials; Water-fouling or polluting. (c ) THE FOLLOWING WILL require a summons in the County Court: Any of those nuisances next-mentioned where the value or the rent of the premises in dispute, or in respect of which and over which the easement is claimed, shall not exceed £20 per annum; or where damages in a personal action not exceeding £50 are sought to be recovered, unless by consent of both parties. (d) THE FOLLOWING WILL require a regular action at law: Buildings from which water falls on to another house. Commons, injury to soil, digging turf, injuring pasture. Drainage, interruption of. Encroachments on highways, rivers, streets, or squares. Gas company fouling any stream. Lights, obstruction of. Party wall, paring off part of; Publication of injurious advertisements. Rivers, pulling down banks of; Right of way, interruption of. Sewage, conducting, into river; Stream, pollution or diversion of. (e) THE FOLLOWING HAVE NOT been definitely settled either way, but may, under certain circumstances, be worth the cost and trouble of a trial: Church bell-ringing Hospital, infectious. Manufactory, near house, introducing more noisy machinery, or new way of working it; Music, powerful band near house. Rifle practice; Rockets or fireworks, letting off, frequently. Sewage contributed by several persons, amount contributed by each not being sufficient to cause a nuisance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salesie Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 And I bet that even in those days the Drama Queens, those who are only happy when miserable, wrote to complain to anyone and everyone in authority whose address they could get hold of? Cheers-salesie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 I think anyone who has perused their local newspapers for the Great War years could conclude that England was still 'gone to the dogs' forty-odd years later, war or no war. My local paper frets about eye-wateringly dreadful things that humans do to each other. Also I would be very pleased if you could inform me ... what action you will be taking to prevent such outrageous acts happening again Has Sheffield Hallam put its lecturers on a 24 hour Memorial Watch rota yet? Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 There's a Statue of Robert Burns,holding a flower in Aberdeen. Students have always thought the flower fair game,and I am sure the Authorities have gone out of their way,to make sure it is not. Cannot say if one of the miscreants was ever caught in the act.If so what sentence the Beak handed down and whether the sentence harmed a future career? If Students wish to get totally blootered and pee over everything in sight so be it,but surely the alcohol is then dampening their devilment and they gain nothing from their studies,other than academia. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Service 1952 Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 24-hour Memorial Watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 17 October , 2009 Share Posted 17 October , 2009 Edinburgh has a 12 hour floral clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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