List of WW1 memorials in France and Belgium

[Matt Dixon]

I am doing some work for a school and am trying to find the definitive list of Great War CWGC Memorials in France and Belgium. By memorials I mean monuments/edifices that record the names of those who have no known grave (e.g Pozieres Memorial, Vimy Memorial etc).

I am not including private memorials. I have searched CWGC and this site and can't seem to find exactly what I am looking for...can anyone help?

[Terry Denham]

Matt

Send me a PM with your email address (Can't find it!) and I will send you one.

[Terry Denham]

On second thoughts...In case anyone else wants it.

BELGIUM

- BUTTES NEW BRITISH CEMETERY (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL

- MESSINES RIDGE (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL

- NIEUPORT MEMORIAL

- PLOEGSTEERT MEMORIAL

- TYNE COT MEMORIAL

- YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

- ZEEBRUGGE MEMORIAL

FRANCE

- ARRAS FLYING SERVICES MEMORIAL

- ARRAS MEMORIAL

- BEAUMONT-HAMEL (NEWFOUNDLAND) MEMORIAL

- CAMBRAI MEMORIAL

- CATERPILLAR VALLEY (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL

- CITE BONJEAN (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL

- GREVILLERS (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL

- LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL

- LE TOURET MEMORIAL

- LOOS MEMORIAL

- MARFAUX (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL

- NEUVE-CHAPELLE MEMORIAL

- NOYELLES-SUR-MER CHINESE MEMORIAL

- POZIERES MEMORIAL

- SOISSONS MEMORIAL

- SOUTH AFRICAN (DELVILLE WOOD) MEMORIAL

- THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

- V.C. CORNER AUSTRALIAN CEMETERY MEMORIAL

- VILLERS-BRETONNEUX MEMORIAL

- VIMY MEMORIAL

- VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL

The Delville Wood memorial is an official CWGC memorial but it does not bear any names.

[Matt Dixon]

Thanks Terry, you are a gent.

[Guest KevinEndon]

BELGIUM

- BUTTES NEW BRITISH CEMETERY (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL 378

- MESSINES RIDGE (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL 827

- NIEUPORT MEMORIAL 547

- PLOEGSTEERT MEMORIAL 11,366

- TYNE COT MEMORIAL 34,900

- YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL 54,360

- ZEEBRUGGE MEMORIAL 4

Total for Belgium 102,382

FRANCE

- ARRAS FLYING SERVICES MEMORIAL 991

- ARRAS MEMORIAL 34786

- BEAUMONT-HAMEL (NEWFOUNDLAND) MEMORIAL 814

- CAMBRAI MEMORIAL 7,056

- CATERPILLAR VALLEY (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL 1,205

- CITE BONJEAN (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL 47

- GREVILLERS (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL 446

- LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL 3,476

- LE TOURET MEMORIAL 13,384

- LOOS MEMORIAL 20,586

- MARFAUX (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL 10

- NEUVE-CHAPELLE MEMORIAL 4,742

- NOYELLES-SUR-MER CHINESE MEMORIAL 41

- POZIERES MEMORIAL 14,679

- SOISSONS MEMORIAL 3,887

- SOUTH AFRICAN (DELVILLE WOOD) MEMORIAL unavailable

- THIEPVAL MEMORIAL 72,099

- V.C. CORNER AUSTRALIAN CEMETERY MEMORIAL 1,296

Total for France 179,545

Total for Belgium and France 281,927

I wonder why there are no names on the South African (Delville Wood) Memorial.

Kevin

[Terry Denham]

South Africa decided not to follow the lead on the other dominions and included the names of its missing on the same memorial in France as those of the UK - hence Thiepval etc have UK and SA names as appropriate.

Remember that the figures for the number of names take from reference works are always inaccurate as the official number changes virtually frequently - almost every day at the moment. Names are always being added/deleted.

[Matt Dixon]

Does the CWGC have the number of unknown headstones throughout France and Belgium?

[Terry Denham]

It does not appear online (and of course the number also changes) but the figures given in the last Annual Report were - France = 116,459 and Belgium = 48,578.

That figure is the number of bodies and not headstones.

[Matt Dixon]

Thanks Terry,

If you were to add up the worldwide totals for WW1 identified headstones, versus unknowns and names on memorials, would there be more missing/unknown than marked with named headstones?

[Terry Denham]

If you deduct the number of Unknowns with headstones from the number of names on the memorials, you should produce the approximate number still missing - still buried out there somewhere or who ceased to exist.

This is assuming you are talking France & Belgium. There are memorials elsewhere which bear names of those lost at sea or whose graves exist but are either unlocated or are unmaintainable - a little complication.

Of course, there are also the non-coms who are unrecorded anywhere at the moment and their number is obviously unknown but for F&F could run to about 1000 (just a guess after IFCP experience). Some of these could be buried under the Unknown headstones as well.

[Terry Denham]

Not sure that answers your question.

Are you asking if there are more named graves than those missing on memorials/Unknowns?

If so, the Annual Report again says - Named burials worldwide = 587,989 (includes cremations) and Missing = 526,816 (the missing being the number of names on memorials as every Unknown should be on a memorial somewhere).

[Matt Dixon]

Terry,

Your post 11 answers the question.

Thanks for all the information!

[laughton]

I have been trying to put together a CURRENT number to December 2018. I have only looked at those in France and Belgium to date versus the totals. The inclusion of all the non-Commonwealth makes it more difficult.

 

I put the EXCEL spreadsheet in our CEFSG shared MediaFire folder. Look at the SECOND (YELLOW) TAB as it has the updated information with all the memorials in the above lists and removal of those not serving in the commonwealth forces.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/7opkkvopb761o58/War_Dead_Master_Table.xlsx/file

 

Points to consider:

• if the person used an ALIAS then they are listed as UK so I sorted those out
• the Newfoundlanders are listed as Canadians, which they were not in the Great War, so I have sorted those out
  • all of the Newfoundland Regiment are in known graves in Belgium
• I assume the Chinese Labour Corps must have been from Hong-Kong so consider British or Commonwealth

	CWGC TOTALS	Commonwealth	Other	TOTAL FRANCE	TOTAL BELGIUM	FRANCE MEMORIALS	BELGIUM  MEMORIALS
First World War	1074866	1062604	12262	538761	197336	211088	54613
Served with
United Kingdom	831981	831981		440652	162743	179378	40532
ALIAS listed as UK						190	0
Chinese Labour Corps						39	0
Indian	73927	73927		8028	467	4654	412
Canadian	65002	63727		38684	13977	11153	6928
Newfoundland		1275		1024	67	809	0
Australian	62274	62274		33202	12751	11903	6181
New Zealand	18062	18062		7533	4633	1709	0
South African	11358	11358		3462	851	1253	560
Other Nationality	12262	-		6176	1847
Served in
Army	996987	986177	10810	528598	195471	208631	54607
Navy	50074	49594	480	5757	1087	2348	5
Merchant Navy	15636	15613	23	415	2	108	0
Air Force	10666	10573	93	3885	766	0	0
Miscellaneous	1503	647	856	106	10	1	1
TOTAL	1074866	1062604	12262	538761	197336	211088	54613

[laughton]

@Terry Denham

 

If I have this idea correct, I should also be able to add the National Memorials. They are not on the list above, so I need to find a new list or go through the CWGC as I did for Canada and the UK. I know that Canada and the UK are in the same position, as the CWGC is moving names based on the results of the "In From the Cold" and the "Canadian Unknown" projects. I assume that a similar process may be going on elsewhere?

 

These may not be the only ones within a country and I must be careful that I don't end up with a double count with those that are in transition from the Book of Remembrance or the Memorials to a known grave. There are odd ones too, such as the Canadian Tomb of the Unknown Soldier - he was removed from a grave in the Cabaret-Rouge British Cemetery, so he really is a known burial even though now a memorial. Thus I think I need to remove him from the Canadian list (Ottawa National).

 

NATIONAL MEMORIALS	Halifax	Ottawa National	Book of Remembrance	UK Book Remembrance	Brookwood 1914-1918
First World War	272	1	26	365	347
Served with
United Kingdom			2	359	335
ALIAS listed as UK	2
Chinese Labour Corps
Indian				1	4
Canadian	270	1	24	5	5
Newfoundland
Australian					1
New Zealand
South African					2
Other Nationality
Served in
Army	191	1	25	310	304
Navy	49		1	14	25
Merchant Navy	32			5
Air Force				3	16
Miscellaneous				33	2
TOTAL	272	1	26	365	347
Not Accounted For	0	0	0	0	0

 

Which changes the master table to: (Updated Master Table - EXCEL)

 

	CWGC TOTALS	Commonwealth	Other	TOTAL FRANCE	TOTAL BELGIUM	FRANCE MEMORIALS	BELGIUM MEMORIALS	CANADIAN MEMORIALS	UNITED KINGDOM
First World War	1074866	1062604	12262	538761	197336	211088	54613	299	712
Served with
United Kingdom	831981	831981		440652	162743	179378	40532	2	694
ALIAS listed as UK						190	0	2	0
Chinese Labour Corps						39	0	0	0
Indian	73927	73927		8028	467	4654	412	0	5
Canadian	65002	63727		38684	13977	11153	6928	295	10
Newfoundland		1275		1024	67	809	0	0	0
Australian	62274	62274		33202	12751	11903	6181	0	1
New Zealand	18062	18062		7533	4633	1709	0	0	0
South African	11358	11358		3462	851	1253	560	0	2
Other Nationality	12262	-		6176	1847
Served in
Army	996987	986177	10810	528598	195471	208631	54607	217	614
Navy	50074	49594	480	5757	1087	2348	5	50	39
Merchant Navy	15636	15613	23	415	2	108	0	32	5
Air Force	10666	10573	93	3885	766	0	0	0	19
Miscellaneous	1503	647	856	106	10	1	1	0	35
TOTAL	1074866	1062604	12262	538761	197336	211088	54613	299	712
Not Accounted For						0	0	0	0

[laughton]

I was surprised at the number listed for the South African Book of Remembrance. It would appear that those are all in South Africa of other countries on the South African Continent.

 

I did not find any indication that there were separate "physical" memorials other than at Halifax and Brookwood. If anyone knows better, please advise. I did check that the unknown Newfoundlanders lost at Gallipoli are on the Beaumont Hamel Memorial in France.

 

NATIONAL MEMORIALS	Halifax	CA BOR	UK BOR	Brookwood 1914-1918	AUS BOR	IND BOR	NZ BOR	SA BOR
First World War	272	26	365	347	19	3	3	1794
Served with
United Kingdom		2	359	335		1
ALIAS listed as UK	2				1			1
Chinese Labour Corps
Indian			1	4		2
Canadian	270	24	5	5
Newfoundland
Australian				1	18
New Zealand
South African				2			3	1793
Other Nationality
Served in
Army	191	25	310	304	17	3	3	1794
Navy	49	1	14	25
Merchant Navy	32		5
Air Force			3	16	2
Miscellaneous			33	2
TOTAL	272	26	365	347	19	3	3	1794
Not Accounted For	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

[laughton]

Here is an odd one and I am not quite sure where it goes? 

 

ABUJA MEMORIAL NIGERIA

Quote

In 1932 the Lagos memorial was erected in the Idumota area of Lagos to commemorate the 947 Nigerian casualties of the Inland Water Transport, Royal Engineers and Nigeria Carrier Corps who died during the 1914-18 War, whose graves could not be maintained or located. A similar memorial, known as the Nigeria Memorial, was erected in 1962, at the same location, to commemorate the 1158 Nigerian casualties of the 1939-1945 War, whose graves had also been lost or could not be maintained. In 1978 the two memorials were relocated by the Nigerian Government to form part of a new Nigerian National Memorial in Tafewa Balewa Square, Lagos. In 1989, this new structure was dismantled by the Nigerian Government as they planned to build a new National Memorial in their new capital, Abuja. The Commission's new Abuja Memorial finally completes this process.

 

Those listed are classed as either "served with" United Kingdom or India, not as Nigerian. It is strictly a memorial, there are no burials at the site. At the outbreak of the war in 1914 it was the British  "Colony and Protectorate of Nigeria", so not an independent state. It would appear therefore that it should be listed under the United Kingdom memorials, rather than linked with South Africa. That is confusing, as the South Africa Book of Remembrance states:

Quote

The South African Book of Remembrance commemorates casualties of the two World Wars who are believed to be buried either in South Africa or in other countries within the African continent, and who were not formerly recorded by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. The men and women remembered here are presently commemorated solely by their database and register entry. The Commission will continue to investigate any grave location details.

 

One of the two CWGC statements is not then entirely correct, as if true then a person could be on the Abuja Memorial as well as in the South African Book of Remembrance (SABR). I checked a few and that does not seem to be the case, so the SABR should say "... continent, that are not listed on other memorials, such as the Abuja Memorial in Nigeria." There may be others, I do not know. I had to take a bit of a history lesson, as I was wondering where they recorded the Zouaves (Algerians) that were lost in the April 1915 Ypres gas attack. They were a French colony, so not commonwealth, thus they would not be in the SABR either, so "... continent, that are not listed on other memorials, such as the Abuja Memorial in Nigeria, or those that were not Commonwealth soldiers, such as the Algerians." The CWGC cemetery VOORMEZEELE ENCLOSURES NO.1 AND NO.2 was started by the 3rd Regiment Zouaves in December 1914, but it does not say if they were later removed by the French. I have only done the ZIP Files for Enclosure No. 3. The CWGC summary does not report any French or Algerians as being buried in the cemetery, but they could theoretically be in the list of 40 UNKNOWNS in that cemetery.

 

It would appear that Abuja has to remain as a separate entity under the United Kingdom List and to be included in the totals for the MEMORIALS. One has to assume that they are already in the list for the United Kingdom total war dead? Are there more of these special cases?

 

It appears all the Chinese Labour Corps (2,066 dead) are listed as UK Army and the missing (78) are in the UKBOR. There is a separate memorial for those who died on land or at sear whose graves are not known (39 total) on the Noyelles-Sur-Mer Chinese Memorial. There is also one (1) listed for Great War named on the Sai Wan (China) Memorial in Hong Kong.

 

One group that I had not initially considered, as they fall under the CWGC Canadian Agency, are the grave sites and memorials in Latin America (ie, British Honduras / Belize, Guiana) and the Caribbean (British West Indies - Bahamas, Barbados, Jamaica, Trinidad, Tobago, Turks & Caicos, Cayman. Windward, Leeward). I think I am in a spider's nest!

 

NATIONAL MEMORIALS Abuja UNITED KINGDOM First World War 944 1656 Served with     United Kingdom 927 1621 ALIAS listed as UK   0 Chinese Labour Corps   0 Indian 17 22 Canadian   10 Newfoundland   0 Australian   1 New Zealand   0 South African   2 Other Nationality     Served in     Army 944 1558 Navy   39 Merchant Navy   5 Air Force    19 Miscellaneous   35 TOTAL 944 1656 Not Accounted For 0 0