10 Squadron RNAS

[love4history]

Hello everybody

Based on a picture of a downed aircraft we are trying to identify both pilots and reconstruct the event. Research leads us to a Sopwith Camel of 10 RNAS, downed on March 18th 1918 by Emil Thuy near Swevezeele (Zwevezele) West-Flanders

Is there anyone that owns or has access to the history on 10 Naval Squadron by Mike Westrop and would be willing to do a lookup please?

Thank you for your help!

cheers from Flanders

l4h

[per ardua per mare per terram]

I don't have the book to hand. Do you know the number of the Camel?

These files At Kew might be of interest:

AIR 1/45/15/9/21 R.N.A.S. 10 Squadron 1917 Feb. 1918 Mar.

AIR 1/93/15/9/233 R.N.A.S. 10 Squadron- report on operations. 1918 Jan.31

AIR 1/93/15/9/234 R.N.A.S. 10 Squadron- officers and ratings- return of arrivals and departures. 1918 Jan.

[Cnock]

Hi,

for the pick of the plane, look here :

http://www.forumeerstewereldoorlog.nl/viewtopic.php?t=20192

Cnock

[fetubi]

This is it, perhaps - the 10(N) loss on 18 March 1918:

B3781 Sopwith Camel 10(Naval)Sqn

** combat with EA seCOURTRAI 12-30pm then seen going east sROULERS 12-45pm MIA(FSLt GT Steeves POW) combat ovHOUTHULST FOREST? [?"Sopwith" claim combat wSWEVEZEELE 12-50pm Ltn E Thuy Ja28]

Regards,

Trevor

[love4history]

Hi everybody

Yes, the mentioned picture was posted on a Dutch forum (by me) if anyone wants to see it. Thanks for the link Cnock!

The airplane has in the mean while with a high degree of certainty been identified as that of Steeves, so you were spot on with the reference there Trevor.

I'm trying to analyse this. Am I right if I translate the abbreviations as: combat with enemy aircraft south east (of) courtrai at 12:30 pm. Then seen going East (what does the s mean there??) to Roulers at 12:45. Missing in Action (FSLt GT Steeves POW) Combat over Houthulst Forest? (Sopwith claim combat west of Swevezeele at 12:50 Pm by Ltn E Thuy of Jasta 28)

I'm a bit confused in the sequence of events here. Fight south east of Courtrai 12:30, Figth broken off and going East? to Roulers (although Roulers is slightly North West of Courtrai??) at 12:45 Then where should I put the combat over Houthulst Forest??

Thanks

l4h

[MikeW]

Swapping forums, as I have it recorded:

FCdr Carter led an eight machine high offensive patrol at 11.30. The patrol was attacked by a formation of 8 Albatros scouts at 12.30, southeast of Courtrai. Carter, Mellings and Joseph were involved in inconclusive engagements. FSL Steeves failed to return from the patrol , he was last seen by FCdr Carter at 12.45, heading eastwards and was possibly shot down by Ltn E Thuy of Jasta 28. Steeves was captured and became a prisoner of war.

extra comments - A W Carter was in charge of A Flight, he was an extreemly capable pilot and leader. The patrol would have been a mixed flight with machines and pilots from both A, B and C Flights. Carter and the other two pilots mentioned, HT Mellings and SC Joseph all became aces.

The squadron was based at Teteghem.

The Camel flown by Steeves was B3781, a Bentley Camel in A Flight colours of black and white humbug stripes with a large letter A below (and behind) the cockpit.

Gordon Tracey Steeves was born on 26/10/1898 and came from Paradise, New Brunswick, later lived at Hillsboro, New Brunswick. Joined the RNAS at Ottawa on 19/4/17. Trained at Manston and Cranfield. Briefly with Naval 12 from 12th to 28th January 1918. With Naval 10 from 29th January 1918.

There, that's just about exhaused my knowledge of Steeves, other than I could tell you why he went into Chatham Hospital in 1917 but we'll leave what he did in his spare time to the imagination

Mike

[fetubi]

Hi,

Yep, some of these coded entries are harder than others. All your assumptions are correct, but I'd just add the mention of Roulers means he was seen going east (when) south of Roulers. The abbreviations are extensively explained in the introduction to my book. The entry is assembling all the references I could find to the event - though occasionally these are confusing and contradictory in themselves, though I don't think they are in this case, to be honest The entry means he was seen in combat south east of COURTRAI at 12-30pm and then seen going east when south of Roulers. Another source has suggested the combat might have been more specifically over Houthulst Forest, but the question mark after this in the entry is very relevant (as usual) - it means it's not fully conclusive as far as I am concerned.

Mike's input is very relevant as he has studied these particular combats in great detail.

You have to appreciate there were several thousand entries to assemble in TSTB, and although for every single one I sought to make sense of the information, the best scrutiny about very particular combats and losses like this remains to somehow go and view the Casualty Report at Kew, or get a friend to copy it for you. Squadron Record Books also often take you inside of the events

Hope this helps,

Trevor

[love4history]

Thank you very much both Mike and Trevor! There's quite enough detail there now to write a short piece on the "downing" of FSL Steeves for our local history yearbook. It's higly appreciated that two experts like yourselves are willing to take the time and share your knowledge to help out novices in the matter, with what must seem to you guys like strange, irrelevant or plain silly questions eh?

Learnt a lot again on the subject of WWI air warfare by this little piece of research!

There, that's just about exhaused my knowledge of Steeves, other than I could tell you why he went into Chatham Hospital in 1917 but we'll leave what he did in his spare time to the imagination

By all means... unless you have interesting details and or pictures to add to the story

[pherbst]

I found this entry serendipitously while searching for information on my Great Uncle, Gordon Tracy Steeves. He was my father's favorite uncle, and mine as well. Great story teller and very funny. He used to tell us that the guy that shot him down eventually landed and took him prisoner, but first took him to his estate to feed him. As I remember, he spent the rest of the war in a POW camp and made his own way back to England after the war. He spent his entire career in aviation in Canada, as both a pilot and an instructor. He eventually settled in Nova Scotia where he passed away in the early 70's, around 1970-71.

[MikeW]

Thank you for adding extra history on Gordon Tracy, we never stop learning!

 

Hope it's not too cheeky, but do you have a photograph of Gordon Tracey Steeves?

 

Regards

 

Mike

[pherbst]

I'll look through the family files. I'm sure we have one somewhere.

[josquin]

pherbst

Some additional information from vital records and census returns:  Gordon Tracy (not Tracey) Steeves, born 26 October 1898, at

Paradise, Annapolis, Nova Scotia, the son of Edwin L. & Emma Edith (Peck) Steeves.

  (Source: Nova Scotia Vital Records, 1763-1957 and Nova Scotia Delayed Births, 1837-1904).

Edwin was born in New Brunswick, in 1858.  The 1901 Canada Census has two returns for Gordon,

one stating his residence as Annapolis, Nova Scotia and the other listing King Albert, New Brunswick.

The 1911 Canada Census states his residence as King Albert, New Brunswick.  I second Mike's request

for a photo that could be posted on the forum, if possible.

 

Josquin

[pherbst]

Thanks for the additional info. I know my grandmother, Gordon's sister, was from New Brunswick, so that might be why the confusion. Edwin was a minister in NB. I'll post a photo as soon as we can find one.