ickster Posted 24 September , 2009 Share Posted 24 September , 2009 First, hello from Canada, as this is my first post in what will likely be many in these forums. I've finished researching most of my relatives who served in the CEF, and now am moving onto my UK relatives. I've been fortunate enough, through the wonders of modern geneological online tools, to obtain a photo of my G-Grandfather in uniform. I am now wondering if anyone can help determine what inforamtion may be gleaned from his cap badge and collar insignia. Unfortunately, the image is a touch blurry as it has been enlarged. Frederick James, married to Laura James (nee Davey) was invalidated out of the Army (family lore has it that he was gassed), but I haven't been able to locate his attestation papers online, as of yet. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 24 September , 2009 Share Posted 24 September , 2009 Erik, Collar Badges denote service in a Pioneer Battalion. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 24 September , 2009 Share Posted 24 September , 2009 As george says, a Pioneer battalion. I'd go with 19th Welsh (Glamorgan Pioneers), or 23rd Welsh (Welsh Pioneers) The 23rd served only in Salonika, whereas the 19th were in France and belgium, so a medal card would tell which by theatre served in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 24 September , 2009 Share Posted 24 September , 2009 Welcome to the Forum, Erik. Frederick JAMES' marriage registration (Exeter Q1 1909) shows that he had the middle name John. There is an MIC for a Pte Frederick J JAMES in the Welsh Regiment with number 42219, but no further details. Can't find a service/pension record for him on Ancestry. I don't know how far the service number can help pinpoint the battalion, but I note that the man with number 42209, Pte P D MORGAN, was in "D" Coy, 23rd Bn Welsh Regiment, and is buried just up the road from me here in Salonika. http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=341436 Adrian P.S. The service record exists of the man with the number immediately preceding Frederick's - 42218 Pte Theophilus Henry/Harry HARRIS. He enlisted in 23rd Welsh at Porthcawl on 8 March 1916. He was posted to Salonika on 11/8/16, and transferred to the Labour Corps (96 Coy) on 17/11/17 with number 529303 after recuperating from malaria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ickster Posted 24 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 24 September , 2009 Great stuff, everyone! Many thanks. As with the CEF community, I'm always amazed at the level of expertise out there and everyone's willingness to help. I anticipated it would be an engineering regiment, or pioneers, with the pickax visible on the collar dog. The Welsh connection isn't unexpected since, although the family is from the Devon region, Fred appears to have ended up in Wales for period of time, although I have yet to determine why. The Barnardo's records for his children had them as being born in Wales, which led us on a merry chase until we realized that information was faulty. On entry to the home, it's likely that the custodian who placed them thought they had been born while he was in Wales. John is indeed his middlw name, so this is a possible match. When searching for attestation papers for Frederick James, with Laura listed the Spouse, I had no luck, but was amazed at how poular that name combination appears to have been. I've heard tell that a great number of WWI records were destroyed during the bombing in WWII. Is this true, and would this be why it's difficult to locate his attestation papers? Would the attestation papers be colocated with the service record, if it still exists? This may be a dumb question, but where is Salonika? I'm at sea right now without access to Google Earth. Thanks again. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw63 Posted 24 September , 2009 Share Posted 24 September , 2009 I've heard tell that a great number of WWI records were destroyed during the bombing in WWII. Is this true, and would this be why it's difficult to locate his attestation papers? Would the attestation papers be colocated with the service record, if it still exists? This may be a dumb question, but where is Salonika? I'm at sea right now without access to Google Earth. Hi, Yes, attestation papers would have been filed with service papers and yes, a great many were destroyed in WWII bombing. Salonika is in Greece. Check-out the section on the Long, Long Trail: http://www.1914-1918.net/salonika.htm Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw63 Posted 24 September , 2009 Share Posted 24 September , 2009 If it's any help, he was living at 881 Neath Road, Morriston, Swansea in 1911 with wife Laura & daughter Laura Miriam. Probably still in the Swansea area when he enlisted? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ickster Posted 24 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 24 September , 2009 Thanks for that info, Simon. It helps a lot, but, like most info in this game, creates more questions! That's what's great about it. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 25 September , 2009 Share Posted 25 September , 2009 Hi, Salonika is in Greece. Check-out the section on the Long, Long Trail: http://www.1914-1918.net/salonika.htm Simon Modern name is Thessaloniki Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 25 September , 2009 Share Posted 25 September , 2009 Thanks for that info, Simon. It helps a lot, but, like most info in this game, creates more questions! That's what's great about it. Erik Erik, Some useful links etc for pioneer battalions ... The battalion history of 20th KRRC (British Empire League Pioneers) by Capt A.S.Turberville gives an excellent idea of the typical work and experiences of a pioneer battalion on the Western Front and is well worth a read. This book is available free in various formats at this website: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario - Turberville '20th KRRC - BEL Pioneers' You can download it from the window on the left hand side. From an Amazon search, Turberville seems to have been re-issued by various publishers in May 2009, but to be honest, the scanned original at the link above is the one I use ... and it's free! We have some Pals here on the Forum who are descendants of 20/KRRC BEL Pioneers men and there are some good photos posted here by them. If you do a search on British Empire League Pioneers KRRC you should find most of them as well as a fair bit of other useful info. I can also strongly recommend K.W. ("Bill") Mitchinson's Pioneer Battalions on the Great War. This will give you a more historical perspective on these interesting units. Lastly the best place to start is the short article by Bill available here: Friends of the Royal Logistics Corps Museum - articles Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ickster Posted 26 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2009 Many thanks, Mark. I've a lot of reading to catch up on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ickster Posted 26 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2009 If it's any help, he was living at 881 Neath Road, Morriston, Swansea in 1911 with wife Laura & daughter Laura Miriam. Probably still in the Swansea area when he enlisted? Simon Simon, I tried PM'ing you, but I don't think this site allows that. Out of curiousity, how did you locate that info? I didn't see any 1911 Wales census on Ancestry. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 26 September , 2009 Share Posted 26 September , 2009 Simon, I tried PM'ing you, but I don't think this site allows that. Erik Erik, The PM (and picture upload) functionality is only activated when you've made a few posts. I think the threshold is quite low, so you should be able to do this very soon. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw63 Posted 28 September , 2009 Share Posted 28 September , 2009 Out of curiousity, how did you locate that info? I didn't see any 1911 Wales census on Ancestry. Erik Eric, 1911 Census information for England & Wales is now available online from findmypast.com http://www.1911census.co.uk/ It's free to search the indexes, but you have to buy credits to view transcripts or original returns. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ickster Posted 3 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2009 Simon, Many thanks. I wonder why Ancestry doesn't have that census? Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 3 October , 2009 Share Posted 3 October , 2009 They were outbid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ickster Posted 5 November , 2009 Author Share Posted 5 November , 2009 OK then....I've delved further into the history of the Welsh Regiment and looked at more medical files etc. than I care to admit to. It seems malaria was a major issue for these troops! As usual, being the new guy to this, I'm seeking further advice, however the question may best be put under another heading (administrators - please move if required). I've looked at the Welsh Regiment's site and they recommend contacting the archives at Kew. This is what they say: "Most surviving WW1 soldiers' records have been moved to the National Archives at Kew ( see next column ). However, bombing during the Second World War destroyed more than two-thirds of those records covering the period 1914-1920. If you are looking for a WW1 soldier, it is best to start at Kew with a Medal Index Card search. If your relative claimed a war disability pension, it is likely that the papers have been removed and filed either with PIN71 series of records in the National Archives or held at the Veterans Agency, Tomlinson House, Norcross, Blackpool FY5 3WP" My question here is: If the service record/pension records aren't available online at Ancestry, is there a reasonable chance (10+%) of the records being at Kew. Before I pay for a search there (much cheaper than flying over from Canada), I'd like to decide if it's worth the shot in the dark. Has anyone else had success with the paper/fiche records there after all other avenues have been exhausted? Thanks again. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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