Highland Cyclist Battalion C Coy Photographs

[Woburn Paul]

I just added another photo of Major Cox to the thread about him here Not sure of the vintage or rank, maybe someone can tell me.

Lovely to see the group shot with his men, many thanks for posting that!

Paul Cox

[Andrew Upton]

Not sure of the vintage or rank, maybe someone can tell me.

Captain from his cuff-rank in the original picture, the latest picture Major from the same.

[auntynet]

Hi

Have just recently found my Grandfathers service records and was very interested in this discussion and photographs. My Grandfather David Johnston signed up with the Highland Fife RGA on the 18th June 1915 and his attestation papers state he was with Highland Cyclist battalion service number 1230 which later changed to six digits.

On his service record it stated he was posted and embodied on said date with Highland Fife RGA 3rd line?, I believe. Grandfather was posted to France on the 12th May 1917 to 27th Siege Battery. Although his rank was gunner from family talk he was a signaller, laying the communication lines.

I have seen a group photo of a HC company on the forum and there is a wee chappie sat cross legged in the front of the group (my grandfather was 5ft6) and I am very drawn to this man. Unfortunately I came into My grandfathers life he was 67 when I was born and I have no photos of him as a young man, he was 24 when he signed up. He was living in townhill Dunfermline at the time of signing and on discharge was living in Kikrcaldy.

The photo posted by Chris 4th Gordon I am trying to have a good look at.

Jeanette

[Guest elneil]

QUOTE (PPCLI @ Sep 27 2009, 02:54 PM)

Great photos - I take it you are able to pick out George in the group photos? Regards his enlistment, #1189 & 1201 16/10/1914; #1755 and 1756 17/12/1914 - so perhaps around early December 1914, but definitely not pre-war.

Hi Stuart,

Thanks so much for the enlistment information above - December 1914 sounds right then and the photographs were probably taken in early-mid 1915.

As far as picking George out in the group photos goes: I believe he is in the second row of the formal group photo (second from the right), he is playing the flute at the back in the band photo and I think he is the boy on the left in the white shirt (second from the front) in the dinner photo.

QUOTE (PPCLI @ Sep 27 2009, 02:54 PM)

There are at least a couple of the HCB/RWR men's records surviving - 664 (267261) David Marshall & 1185 (267203) Herriot Bayne. These records show that the HCB men transferred to the 2/7th Royal Warks on 17th May 1916 and landed in France just a few days later (22nd May). You may already have this info, but just in case.

I did know around 150 HCB men were transferred to the RWR (distributed between the 2/6th and 2/7th) in May 1916 but didn't have the exact dates so thanks for those. I also don't know exactly which HCB companies the men were transferred from although it is now clear that some C Coy men must have been amongst them including George. As the SDGW and CWGC entries do not cite the companies the men were part of I don't know which companies the rest of the men came from and that would be interesting to know; I only know George was in C Coy due to the photos. It is possible to make educated guesses due to birthplaces and enlistment locations but they are still leaps because they men could realistically have been posted to any of the 8 companies (e.g. there were at least two companies closer to George's hometown where he enlisted than Tayport.)

The casualty rate for the 150 HCB boys transferred to the RWR was very high; a two thirds casualty rate with 31 deaths and 23 of those 31 died at Fromelles on that fateful night. I have previously looked for service papers for all of the 23 and only two have survived as far as I could discern including that of the soldier you mentioned above - David Marshall. He was the earliest HCB recruit (No 664) to have died at Fromelles. David was born 11th Feb 1895 and gave his age at enlistment as 17 and his CWGC entry states his age at death was 21 which is correct. This would mean he enlisted sometime between Feb 1912 and Feb 1913 and definitely makes him a pre-war recruit. Considering 664 was 1912-13 and 1701 was probably Dec 1914 I think at least 9 of the 23 were pre-war recruits but it depends on the influx that would have come between Aug and Dec 1914. Robert Cunningham, No 2268, was the highest numbered recruit to die at Fromelles and he must have volunteered in 1915.

Thanks again for the information and I'm glad so many people have appreciated the photos.

Regards

Michelle

Hi Michelle, thank you for this information. Herriot Bayne was my great uncle and I believe he died, together with his brother William Bayne and cousin Alexander Bayne. I cannot imagine the sadness this must have caused. My grandfather, Charles Henderson was also in the HCB (I hope I have his correct record - 1087 / 43052) and I was under the impression he was a POW. He did survive the war, but sadly died 7 years later. Kind regards, Eleanor

[rolt968]

A number of oddments which may be useful.

According to Edwards (British Regiments 1914-1918) the 1/1 HCB (though it wouldn't become 1/1 until 2/1 was split off in November) was mobilised at Kirkcaldy, its headquarters on 4 August 1918. It moved to its war station at East Linton, East Lothian in August 1914 (exact date unknown) where the battalion itself stayed until moving to St Andrews in July 1916. I wonder if some/any of the first group of photographs were taken near East Linton.

If a man joined after a TF battalion was mobilised he would not necessarily be allocated to a company which was based near his peacetime home. He would join the "local" company in peacetime so that he could train with it conveniently. If the whole battalion was mobilised there wouldn't be a "local" company. Also after mobilisation, the TF battalions paired their eight companies into four matching the regular army.

In the large group taken in Kirkcaldy, one or two of the men seem to be wearing the belt from the 1903 equipment. Unfortunately this doesn't really tell us very much. 1903 equipment remained in service in some units long after the 1908 equipment came in. This was particularly true of "non-first line units" (I think this means anyone except regular infantry serving at home!). Some TF units went to Gallipol with 1903 equipment. Some of it was re-issued during the shortages in 1914-1915.

Roger.