Archangel and Murmansk 1919

[harriottbrand]

I am researching my grandmother's diary of her evacuation from Archangel and Murmansk in 1919 and trying to put fact to fiction. She had spent 6 years in Russia during the revolution (she was in Pskov when the Tsar resigned) before leaving on the Csar bound for Newcastle. She worked as a translator on the ship on her way home as there were many french on board and she had only £10. Her brother was Kenelm Everard Lane Creighton, Rear admiral of the New Zealand and Jutland fame and later Malta.

Reputedly she taught a Bolshevik whose name was Stanislas Shaldokas (secretary to the party but do not know if this was locally or nationally) who fell in love with her. He heard that the Glory and another ship had mines attached to them in Archangel to prevent them leaving and saw to it that they were removed because of his love for her. I'd like to find out if this was true.

Does anyone have diaries or references to Dorothy Gladys Creighton? Please get in touch.

Harriott

[simonharley]

Are there any references perchance in her brother's book "Convoy Commodore", e.g. "Returned from convoy XX-##, saw sister..."

Otherwise, nothing on my end.

Simon

[PGL]

A relative of mine took part in the evacuation. He never mentioned your Grandmother specifically but he did mention seeing the ship she was on, the Csar (he was on another ship at the time). He did mention that the "Bolo" were floating mines down the River Dvina at one point but that's the first time I've heard the story about mines being attached to HMS Glory (not that I'm suggesting it didn't happen or was rumoured to have happened).

I'm sorry I haven't been able to help much but it sounds like a fascinating account. Do you have any plans to release parts of the diary for publication? I'd love to read it.

[harriottbrand]

A relative of mine took part in the evacuation. He never mentioned your Grandmother specifically but he did mention seeing the ship she was on, the Csar (he was on another ship at the time). He did mention that the "Bolo" were floating mines down the River Dvina at one point but that's the first time I've heard the story about mines being attached to HMS Glory (not that I'm suggesting it didn't happen or was rumoured to have happened).

I'm sorry I haven't been able to help much but it sounds like a fascinating account. Do you have any plans to release parts of the diary for publication? I'd love to read it.

Will be doing something with all the info we are gathering....it would make a fascinating book but needs more research to verify her tale. The diary although written 30 years later is an amazing account and I have no reason to think she made any ofit up. She may have got spelling of names wrong. We have an autograph book too with very amusing drawings and cartoons of the time and an autograph signed Tatiana Romanova ( she was working as a nurse in Pskov at the time and Granny says she saw her there.

If you come across anything of interest please let me know, particulary photos of which there are lots by the Canadians and Americans but not of British. With thanks

.

[Simon Jones]

Embarkation rolls survive for these ships evacuating North Russia, at the National Archives. I don't have my notes with me at present so can't give you the references but I think they are in class WO25.

[harriottbrand]

Embarkation rolls survive for these ships evacuating North Russia, at the National Archives. I don't have my notes with me at present so can't give you the references but I think they are in class WO25.

Do you have any help to try and find out anything about Stanislas Shaldokas, the Bolshevik secretary that she taught spoken english to?

Also trying to find out about the family she went out to who lived in Pskov. The father was a member of the Duma and looked after estates and parks etc relating to the russian aristocracy. Name of Jubshaninoff, wife, son Dover and sister Sevis.

Our son is in Moscow at present and if there is somewhere he could go it is possible he could research...it is just knowing where to go!

[PGL]

It wasn't my intention to suggest that anyhting in your Grandmother's diary was made up (opens mouth, crams in both feet). I apologise if I gave that impression.

I've been doing some research on the military side of things during the evacuation (in particular 2nd Hampshire Regiment), I don't know if any of that would interest you or not. I'll certainly share it with you if you think it might help.

[harriottbrand]

It wasn't my intention to suggest that anyhting in your Grandmother's diary was made up (opens mouth, crams in both feet). I apologise if I gave that impression.

I've been doing some research on the military side of things during the evacuation (in particular 2nd Hampshire Regiment), I don't know if any of that would interest you or not. I'll certainly share it with you if you think it might help.

No worries!

If you have any date references to the position and leaving of boats from Archangel to Murmansk at the very end I would be interested. I'm looking for the leaving date of the Glory from Archangel and the Csar for Newcastle. The latter was full of french and other nationalities and my grandmother worked her passage home as a translator for the french people and for their documents (lots of post small pox cases on board). She also had to prepare a coffin for a baby that had died and a report for the Cunard company about it's death.

I have been unable to trace the voyage as yet but know the Csar left on or about30th September. I think the Csar was in Murmansk from 25th and was there for about a week (Daish"s diary on web site). I know that she sailed to Newcastle from my grandmother's diary.

[Simon Jones]

Further to my earlier post, at the National Archives, Kew, you will find the Embarkation returns for ships departing and arriving in the UK. The file reference for the returns of ships coming ‘Abroad for Home’ September to December 1919 is WO 25/3589. This should contain the return for the Czar. I have used these returns and they contain a list of passengers for each vessel as well of dates of departure and arrival. What I can’t recall is whether they list War Office personnel only and you will have to establish that for yourself when you visit the National Archives.

[harriottbrand]

Further to my earlier post, at the National Archives, Kew, you will find the Embarkation returns for ships departing and arriving in the UK. The file reference for the returns of ships coming ‘Abroad for Home’ September to December 1919 is WO 25/3589. This should contain the return for the Czar. I have used these returns and they contain a list of passengers for each vessel as well of dates of departure and arrival. What I can’t recall is whether they list War Office personnel only and you will have to establish that for yourself when you visit the National Archives.

Thanks, I will have to make a visit to Kew. Have others to trace( Granny's parents who separated and went off to have lives in Canada. Not to mention the other grandmother who went to teach Maoris in Nz and then went round the world!

[Simon Jones]

Be aware that these are War Office returns so if you want to trace your relatives who were not in the amred forces you should look at the other immigration records available via for example Ancestry.co.uk.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Searching the UK National Archievs catalogue doen't produce many specific hits

MPI 1/671/36 North Sea: 'Tracing of track followed by Second Battle Cruiser Squadron from 2 p.m. May 31 st to 4 a.m. June 1 st 1916'. Scale: [1: (calculated)]. Compass rose. Signed Kenelm E L Creighton, Lieutenant Commander, HMS New Zealand. Lithographed by Malby & Sons, Dec 1920.

WO 95/4143 war diary for Hospital Ship, Czar 1919 Jan.

There are several files about Arcangel and Murmansk from various departments, that migh contain something of interest.