Pension Record Query

[oldleedsman]

My grandfather's Service Record appears to have been destroyed. I do have his medals & Discharge Certifcate. See here for his MIC. He was Discharged in August 1920 as being no longer fit for war service and I know he had a small pension for the rest of his life.

My problem is that I can't find his Pension Record on Ancestry either (I'm not entirely sure of they've finished digitising all the records, but I know that have passed his letter - 'M').

Does anyone know if these records are supposed to be complete? I had understood that WO364 had survived.

I contacted the Service Personnel and Veteran's Agency and they said that their records were nothing much more than name and address. Also, Historical Disclosures in Glasgow only have records from January 1921.

Has anyone got any bright ideas?

Many thanks.

[Stebie9173]

Have you referenced the Medal Roll ledger books held at the National Archives at Kew. That should tell you which battalions he was with.

A quick check through the Gordon Highlanders with similar numbers in "Soldiers Died in the Great War" would suggest that he was with the 7th Battalion of the Gordon Highlanders.

His time with the Cameron Highlanders could have been confined to training and then he and his comrades transferred to the Gordons on arrival in France.

The "Pension Records" are a bit of a misnomer in the fact that they are not really Pension Records, only extracts from Service Records, of which some were used in conjunction with pension inquiries. Neither are they records that cover all claims for Pension.

Steve.

[SteveE]

I know he had a small pension for the rest of his life.

My problem is that I can't find his Pension Record on Ancestry either (I'm not entirely sure of they've finished digitising all the records, but I know that have passed his letter - 'M').

Does anyone know if these records are supposed to be complete? I had understood that WO364 had survived.

Unfortunately the fact that your Grandfather had a pension doesn't mean his details will necessarily be in the 'Pension' Records on Ancestry, which are supposedly all online now.

WO364, the 'unburnt series' was a sample of records that had been moved from the repository to the Ministry of Pensions for analysis. This sample has often been erroneously described as the Pension Records, something that Ancestry hasn't helped by continuing to call them such, they are however, simply, a sample of records of men who happened to have been awarded a pension.

There are some Pension Records held at Kew in the series PIN 26 but again it's only a small sample and having searched the NA catalogue it doesn't appear that your Grandfather's record is there either. Unfortunately it appears that his record is probably amongst the 70% or so that were destroyed.

Regards

Steve

[Stebie9173]

When there is a cmbination of Service numbers and it repeats in the men similar numbered in the later regiment, I try and look at the records of the men who fall within those ranges.

I would look at the records for:

Name: James Forbes

Document Year: 1919

Regimental Number: 87438

Number of Images: 30

Quite a few of the "combination" medal cards mention the Lovat Scouts then the Camerons (S/25xxx numbers) and then the Gordons (S/407xx) numbers.

In Forbes' case, he transferred from "M" Squadron of the 2/2nd Lovat Scouts to the 3rd Cameron Highlanders (S/26534) in England (no date on his file), embarked to France on 7-12-1916, and was posted to the 4th Entrenching Battalion, before transferring to the 1-7th Gordon Highlanders S/40706 on 22-1-1917 joining them the next day, 23-2-1917.

There is a reasonable possibility that Alexander McCloy followed a similar path to the Front.

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

Also:

Percy Kenneth Hunt.

6076 2/2nd Lovat Scouts from 22-10-1915. Transferred to 3rd Battalion Cameron Highlanders (No. S-26603) on 8-12-1916. Posted to 1st Battalion Cameon Highlanders to go to France. Temporarily attached to 4th Entrenching battalion in France from 27-12-1916. Transferred in France to 1/7th Gordon Highlanders (S-40639) on 22-2-1917. Joined 1/7th Gordon Highlanders on 23-2-1917. Killed in action as a L/Cpl. with 1/7th Bn., 31-7-1917.

Name: Percy Kenneth Hunt

Residence : "Mapperley", New Wanstead

Regiment Name: Gordon Highlande??

Regiment Number: 6076

Document Year: 1915

Number of Images: 27

One or two more records along a similar line, and we can at least make a reasonable assumption as to his route to France - assuming that the medal rolls confirm the same battalions.

Steve.

[oldleedsman]

Steve & Steve

Thanks for enlightening me on the so-called Pensions records. I don't know why Ancestry can't explain all that in the notes relating to the records.

I will follow up Hunt & Forbes and see if I can find some general idea of similar movements. I have also been given some help on this thread which has also given me some great help.

David