David_Underdown Posted 17 March , 2010 Share Posted 17 March , 2010 Still no info that would provide any link between Sedley Collins's illness and his earlier wound, but I did manage to track down a photo of him yesterday: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest terry fox Posted 6 October , 2010 Share Posted 6 October , 2010 Alexander John McKenzie was one of those listed; his death is registered as [Mar 1918 Croydon 2a 452]. He was a distant relative of mine. His brother Albert Edward McKenzie was awarded the VC for his part in the Zeebrugge raid in Dec 1918. I have yet to find his service record but his pension record can be viewed at Ancestry. He was discharged on 31 Aug 1917 after service with 4RNF to Cane Hill asylum. He was adjudged physically unfit through general paralysis and total incapacity, which sounds like shell-shock to me. Does anyone know where 4RNF were engaged in the period prior to this? Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 8 October , 2010 Share Posted 8 October , 2010 Terry It was home based service. In the archaic language of the day 'General Paralysis of the Insane' was a medical euphemism for tertiary syphillis: http://frontierpsychiatrist.co.uk/general-paralysis-of-the-insane-and-psychiatrys-only-nobel-prize/ Before the advent of penicillin it was endemic in Edwardian Britain. It is estimated that 10% of the population suffered from acquired or congenital syphillis. It also knew no class boundaries - Winston Churchill's father died of GPI. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 19 April , 2011 Share Posted 19 April , 2011 Chris/Mel Any update on your men? (you'll have seen I've been "signing off" a considerable number of "cold" threads) John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 19 April , 2011 Share Posted 19 April , 2011 John all of the relevant cases where submitted; just awaiting an answer from CWGC Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 19 April , 2011 Share Posted 19 April , 2011 Great news! Keep us posted. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 19 April , 2011 Share Posted 19 April , 2011 Thanks, Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 24 August , 2011 Share Posted 24 August , 2011 See New CWGC Acceptances 23rd August 2011 for thes latest on these men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 24 August , 2011 Share Posted 24 August , 2011 Good to see a result on these four. All credit to you and Mel. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 25 August , 2011 Share Posted 25 August , 2011 A nice little write up and mention for the In From the Cold Project here: http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/9213123.Campaign_secures_war_hero_memorial/ All credit to Adrian Falks for his dedication and endeavour. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 25 August , 2011 Share Posted 25 August , 2011 Well done, all involved in getting these men recongised Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 16 October , 2016 Share Posted 16 October , 2016 I am reviving this old thread just to note that not only a good number of the Cane Hill men are now commemorated by the CWGC but that a special memorial was dedicated to them a few months back: The report on the memorial can be found here: http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/14504711.Memorial_honouring_forgotten_WW1_soldiers_unveiled_at_Croydon_cemetery/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 8 May , 2020 Share Posted 8 May , 2020 Alexander John McKenzie is my second cousin twice removed. I was told (by Donald McKenzie, a now deceased grand nephew of his, who owned Alexander's brother Albert's VC) that Alexander died on 7 Mar 1918 at Cane Hill Hospital from complications from his injuries in WWI. I have created a memorial for him:https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/209874604/alexander-john-mckenzie I also found this confirmation: https://www.surreyinthegreatwar.org.uk/person/97143 As my cousin told me, his last name is mis-spelled MacKenzie on his death certificate (and in the GRO Index): https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl Deaths Mar 1918 Mackenzie Alexander J 40 Croydon 2a 452 Alexander and his wife Eliza, nee Berry, had nine children, three of whom died young. There are living descendants. I live in the States, my 2x great grandfather, and Alexander's grand uncle, emigrated to the States in the mid 1860's. I am not in touch with any of the descendants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 10 May , 2020 Share Posted 10 May , 2020 Solarbobky I have no wish to upset you but Alexander did not die of 'complications from injuries received in France during WWI' as stated in your memorial to him. His service with the 4th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers was entirely at home; at no stage was he ever in a theatre of war. Alexander enlisted in the Northumberland Fusiliers under the Derby scheme on 9 December 1915. He was mobilised on 13 September 1916 and discharged on 31 August 1917 after 1 year 266 days of home service as per the details of his service papers: Alexander was discharged by reason of total incapacity caused by General Paralysis [of the Insane] meaning tertiary syphillis. When Chris Harley and I submitted the Cane Hill men to the CWGC for consideration more than ten years past, we did not advance the case of Alexander because of the strict criteria for commemoration requiring any post discharge deaths within the qualifying period to be directly linked to the medical reason for discharge which had to be caused by or aggravated by service. Alexander's service papers clearly state his total incapacity 'was not result of and not aggravated by service' : Quite how the CWGC squared that particular circle is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 Does anyone know where records on those buried at Cane Hill (not just service men) might be found? Many thanks Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 (edited) On 10/05/2020 at 21:28, MelPack said: Alexander enlisted in the Northumberland Fusiliers under the Derby scheme on 9 December 1915. He was mobilised on 13 September 1916 and discharged on 31 August 1917 after 1 year 266 days of home service as per the details of his service papers: Alexander was discharged by reason of total incapacity caused by General Paralysis [of the Insane] meaning tertiary syphillis. When Chris Harley and I submitted the Cane Hill men to the CWGC for consideration more than ten years past, we did not advance the case of Alexander because of the strict criteria for commemoration requiring any post discharge deaths within the qualifying period to be directly linked to the medical reason for discharge which had to be caused by or aggravated by service. Alexander's service papers clearly state his total incapacity 'was not result of and not aggravated by service' : Quite how the CWGC squared that particular circle is anyone's guess. Commemoration by CWGC is commonly a very non-transparent exercise! The Army and Ministry of Pensions had their position on insanity and lunacy set out by 1917 We can see at WFA/Fold3 that Alexander John McKENZIE, 203641, Northumberland Fusiliers, made a disability pension claim (Insane) and on discharge got an £80 Gratuity based on the Royal Warrant Unfortunately his main award file destroyed 10/1/26 His family also got a Gratuity of 15/- pw from 4.6.19, under Article 15, as he died from General Paralysis of the Insane = not a huge amount for a widow b. 1878 and six children under 16. Edit/addit: Article 15 was a temporary pension for a widow and issuable in cases of exceptional hardship where cause of death was not caused/attributable to service [provided death not due to the serious negligence or misconduct of the deceased man] - to not exceed the minimum rate payable under Articles 11 & 12 had she/they been so eligible [which I calculate as totalling 33/9 pw] - to the end of the war and 12 months after. She also appears to have also received £3 8 7 representing arrears of pen. due to widow for period prior to 11.6.18 I've known other men with GPI [at times considered/recorded on a medical board as not caused nor aggravated by service] also get commemorated - but I've not seen all of his docs and still wonder what evidence was considered enough for CWGC. ??? M Edited 31 January , 2023 by Matlock1418 Edit/addit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 31 January , 2023 Admin Share Posted 31 January , 2023 6 hours ago, Neil Mackenzie said: Does anyone know where records on those buried at Cane Hill (not just service men) might be found? Many thanks Neil You might try the Museum of Croydon who have the holdings for the hospital https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F145052 I thought this was interesting http://www.simoncornwell.com/urbex/projects/ch/legacy/memorial.htm I guess if they are not in the registers then they are 'unknown" for individuals there should be a DC at GRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 Many thanks Ken. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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