Essex Regt - Killed in Ireland

[chrisharley9]

Im trying to find out where the lads are buried - any info appreciated as to their place of origin or residence

Name: BRIGDEN, WILLIAM JOSEPH

Initials: W J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Corporal

Regiment/Service: Essex Regiment

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Date of Death: 08/03/1921

Service No: 5999515

N.B.: This casualty has been recently accepted for commemoration by the Commission. However, it will not be possible to add his name to this Memorial immediately. Please contact the Commission before planning a visit, for more information.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Addenda Panel.

Memorial: BROOKWOOD (UNITED KINGDOM 1914-1918) MEMORIAL

Name: CAWLEY, SIDNEY ROBERT

Initials: S R

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Essex Regiment

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Date of Death: 20/03/1921

Service No: 5999664

N.B.: This casualty has been recently accepted for commemoration by the Commission. However, it will not be possible to add his name to this Memorial immediately. Please contact the Commission before planning a visit, for more information.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Addenda Panel.

Memorial: BROOKWOOD (UNITED KINGDOM 1914-1918) MEMORIAL

Name: CRAFER, JOSEPH THOMAS

Initials: J T

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Essex Regiment

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Date of Death: 19/03/1921

Service No: 5999398

N.B.: This casualty has been recently accepted for commemoration by the Commission. However, it will not be possible to add his name to this Memorial immediately. Please contact the Commission before planning a visit, for more information.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Addenda Panel.

Memorial: BROOKWOOD (UNITED KINGDOM 1914-1918) MEMORIAL

Name: STUBBS, HERBERT LESLIE

Initials: H L

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Lance Corporal

Regiment/Service: Essex Regiment

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Date of Death: 23/02/1921

Service No: 5999140

N.B.: This casualty has been recently accepted for commemoration by the Commission. However, it will not be possible to add his name to this Memorial immediately. Please contact the Commission before planning a visit, for more information.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Addenda Panel.

Memorial: BROOKWOOD (UNITED KINGDOM 1914-1918) MEMORIAL

Name: VINCE, FREDERICK HENRY

Initials: F H

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Essex Regiment

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Date of Death: 01/03/1921

Service No: 5998377

N.B.: This casualty has been recently accepted for commemoration by the Commission. However, it will not be possible to add his name to this Memorial immediately. Please contact the Commission before planning a visit, for more information.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Addenda Panel.

Memorial: BROOKWOOD (UNITED KINGDOM 1914-1918) MEMORIAL

Name: WATTS, EDWARD

Initials: E

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Serjeant

Regiment/Service: Essex Regiment

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Date of Death: 19/03/1921

Service No: 5998138

N.B.: This casualty has been recently accepted for commemoration by the Commission. However, it will not be possible to add his name to this Memorial immediately. Please contact the Commission before planning a visit, for more information.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Addenda Panel.

Memorial: BROOKWOOD (UNITED KINGDOM 1914-1918) MEMORIAL

Name: WILKINS, WILLIAM

Initials: W

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Essex Regiment

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Date of Death: 19/03/1921

Service No: 5998204

N.B.: This casualty has been recently accepted for commemoration by the Commission. However, it will not be possible to add his name to this Memorial immediately. Please contact the Commission before planning a visit, for more information.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Addenda Panel.

Memorial: BROOKWOOD (UNITED KINGDOM 1914-1918) MEMORIAL

Chris

[MelPack]

Chris

There are five potential William Brigdens in the 1911 census:

1894 Fulham London

1900 Wandsworth London

1895 Camberwell London

1903 Greenwich London

1900 Birkenhead Cheshire

None of the four Sidney Cawley's listed are compatible with age or middle name.

This is the only compatible Joseph Crafer:

Name: Relationship to head: Marital Status:Years married:Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born:CRAFER, REUBEN HEAD MARRIED M 49 CABINETS MAKER LONDON WHITECHAPELCRAFER, SARAH WIFE MARRIED 28 F 47 LONDON HAGGERSTONCRAFER, REUBENSONSINGLEM24CAPSULE MAKERLONDON HAGGERSTONCRAFER, ANNIEDAUGHTERSINGLEF19FUR WORKERLONDON HAGGERSTONCRAFER, GEORGESONM13SCHOOLLONDON HAGGERSTONCRAFER, JOSEPHSONM11SCHOOLLONDON HAGGERSTONCRAFER, EDWARDSONM8SCHOOLLONDON HAGGERSTONCRAFER JOSEPH (RG14PN1360 RG78PN47 RD16 SD2 ED15 SN159)Address10 WARE ST KINGSLAND ROADCountyLondonDistrictShoreditchSubdistrictShoreditch North WestEnumeration District15ParishShoreditch

Mel

[chrisharley9]

Mel

thanks very much for all of your efforts - it would be bloody London always one of the hardest places to look for a grave

Chris

[IPT]

Only one Herbert Leslie Stubbs on free bmd so may be your man. The link below shows his parents. 1911 census may locate their address and narrow it down.

Births Dec 1895 (>99%)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stubbs Herbert Leslie Woolwich 1d 1213

http://www.tolliss.com/gedview/pedigree.php?rootid=I16163

[chrisharley9]

IPT

cheers mate

Chris

[corisande]

Without making a political statement, I am sure you are aware that the Essex Regiment is not looked upon kindly in Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_Regiment

Given they were based in Co Cork, one would have assumed that they were buried in Co Cork, and the most likely candidate is Ballincollig Military Cemetery in County Cork

That cemetery is not in a good state see this article in the Independent

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fu...ves-463903.html

Oddly CWGC states "here are 10 Commonwealth burials of the 1914-1918 war here." And also say

"The gates of this cemetery are kept locked and entry can only be gained by contacting the Office of Public Works in Cork and speaking to John Crooke or Donal Healey. The telephone number is as follows: Telephoning from the United Kingdom: 00 3 53 21 496 6200 Telephoning from Ireland: 021 496 6200"

There are a number of Google references to "County Cork. Ballincollig Military Cemetery 349 records ; Anne Donaldson", but I am darned if I can get at them. She is referred to in the Independent article, and would be worth contacting if you really needed to know who was buried at that cemetery

[liverpool annie]

Heres a site that maybe of interest if you haven't already seen it .... scroll down you'll find how to get in touch with Anne Donaldson !

http://ballincollig.wordpress.com/military-barracks/

Annie

[chrisharley9]

Corisande

thanks for the pointers - however when I took on the task of finding those listed on the Brookwood Memorial I decided to be completely non judgemental.

Annie

there is BBC news artilce linked to that site - according to Anne Donaldson there are no graves from that period of time

thanks anyway

Chris

[josquin]

Chris,

From the BMD:

BRIGDEN, William Joseph: birth registered 2nd Quarter 1900, at Camberwell; baptism record says b. 1900, Middlesex, son of

William Joseph & Emma Brigden

CAWLEY, Sidney Roberts; 3 Q 1900, Chelmsford, Essex (BMD gives 2nd forename as "Roberts"); 1901 Census "Sidney R. Cawley" is

listed as born about 1900, Essex; living in Essex in 1901

CRAFER, Joseph Thomas; 1 Q 1900, Shoreditch, London; 1901 Census says born abt.1900, living in London in 1901

VINCE, Frederick Henry; 3 Q 1901, Lexden, Essex

WILKINS, William -; 1 Q 1901, West Ham, Essex; 1901 Census, b.abt.1900, Essex; living in Essex in 1901

There are two many "Edward - WATTS" listings to be certain which is the correct man; the 1901 Census, as examples, lists 2

"Edward - Watts," both born about 1899 (meaning 1898 or 1899) in Essex; 1901 Census has 1 living in Essex, the other

in Middlesex; other" Edward - Watts" possibilities: 4 Q 1893, Tendring, Essex & 1 Q 1897, West Ham, Essex

Regards

Trelawney

[chrisharley9]

Trelawnley

thanks - as they say every little helps

Chris

[corisande]

thanks for the pointers - however when I took on the task of finding those listed on the Brookwood Memorial I decided to be completely non judgemental.

I was not being judgmental either, I was flagging why it might be difficult to get information on the Essex Regiment in Cork.

Have you tried getting death certs, for example

CAWLEY, Sidney Roberts. Apr - Jun 1921 vol5 p61 reg district Cork. It may tell you more about their deaths . You get them from Roscommon GRO, download a form off the web and post to them. The process is a bit archaic, but you can get the cert.

If you can get the DVD of The Wind that shakes the barley, it is set in Cork at that time, and though a film, is probably factually correct.

You presumably know that Major, later Lt.General Percival was the intelligence officer of the Essex Regt in Cork at that time, and later was the man who surrendered Singapore to the Japanese.

I should perhaps add as a disclaimer that my grandfather fought in the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, so I do not hold a brief to either defend or attack any group here. I am trying to help your understanding!

[corisande]

You might like to look at this tread

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,60321.0.html

Someone has determined that there are no Essex mentions on the headstones at Ballincollig Military Cemetery in County Cork

[Wesley Wright]

The only one in a list of "crown dead" for Ireland IS Pte Crafter -1st Essex Reg.--19/03/1921--Crossbarry-Co. Cork.

Wesley Wright

[Ken Devitt]

Hi Chris. You are probably aware that the Crossbarry ambush under the command of Tom Barry took place on 19/03/21. I can only assume that three of your men were killed in that attack.

Corporal Stubbs along with a Private Knight were captured and shot by the 3rd. Cork Brigade IRA in Bandon on the 23/02/21.

I'll check to see if they were buried in Ireland. However, I vaguely remember reading that they were returned to England for burial.

Regards,

Ken

[Begeant]

By coincidence I've just launched a website for Chelmsford War Memorial which has a page of my research on CAWLEY:

http://www.chelmsfordwarmemorial.co.uk/CAW...NEY_ROBERT.html

[josquin]

Trelawnley

thanks - as they say every little helps

Chris

Chris,

Here is some additional information from the 1901 Census, primarily, and additional sources:

CRAFER, J.T. born at Haggerston, Northumberland in 1900; 1901 residence, Shoreditch, London.

CAWLEY, S.R. born at Chelmsford, Essex; residing there in 1901 (corroborates the more detailed post on this thread).

BMD lists him as "Sydney Roberts Cawley."

WILKINS, William born at West Ham, Essex and was living there in 1901.

BRIGDEN, William Joseph birth registered at Camberwell, London, in 2nd Quarter 1900; baptismal certificate

lists his birthdate as 25 March 1900, at "Middlesex" (nothing more specific).

Regards

Trelawney

[chrisharley9]

Sorry everyone about my late response - I was out with mother all day yesterday & she knows how to guzzle her wine

Anyway it looks like one grave is now known thanks to Moulsham

Thanks to everyone for their look ups as it has now narrowed down the search for graves somewhat

Corisande - I served in N Ireland for 2 years myself loosing 10 of my friends so the wounds are still very sore for me - I was not trying to get at you - Im just trying to get these lads their proper recognition

Chris

[chrisharley9]

Thanks to Moulsham Pte Crawley's grave has been found

Chris

[Begeant]

Thanks to Moulsham Pte Crawley's grave has been found

Chris

Although it's been found, it is sadly unmarked.

[CGM]

Chris

This is the only compatible Joseph Crafer:

Name: Relationship to head: Marital Status:Years married:Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born:CRAFER, REUBEN HEAD MARRIED M 49 CABINETS MAKER LONDON WHITECHAPELCRAFER, SARAH WIFE MARRIED 28 F 47 LONDON ....................................JOSEPHSONM11SCHOOLLONDON HAGGERSTON........................................ParishShoreditch

Mel

Unfortunately, we don't know the age of Joseph Crafer, when he died, so that can't be used to confirm that he is the Joseph listed above, which is a shame.

Abney Park Cemetery has several Shoreditch families or residents buried there, including Reuben and Sarah. Sadly Joseph is not there.

CGM

[chrisharley9]

Although it's been found, it is sadly unmarked.

Moulsham

It has been reported to the CWGC which means Chelmsford council permitting he will get a CWGC headstone

Chris

[chrisharley9]

Unfortunately, we don't know the age of Joseph Crafer, when he died, so that can't be used to confirm that he is the Joseph listed above, which is a shame.

Abney Park Cemetery has several Shoreditch families or residents buried there, including Reuben and Sarah. Sadly Joseph is not there.

CGM

CGM

thanks to your hunch Pte Crafer's grave has been found at Abney Park

Chris

[CGM]

That is good news, Chris.

[chrisharley9]

Its a good job you spotted that one - the Abney Park index on line has him mistakenly as William

Chris

[CGM]

Ah. Is he in a common grave?

I'm interested in the way the 1901 Census has him born at Haggerston in Northumberland in 1900, and living in Shoreditch in 1901 (#16) as there is a Haggerston in London, only a mile or two away from Shoreditch.