glasgow highlanders 9th battalion

[gerard]

Could anyone tell me if the glasgow highlanders 9th battalion,who enterd the war the 5th of november 1914,entitled to a clasp for their 1914 star.thanks gerard

[DavoT]

Hi Gerard,

firstly, welcome to the forum if this hasn't been done already. Are you looking at someone in particular?

David

[gerard]

Hi Gerard,

firstly, welcome to the forum if this hasn't been done already. Are you looking at someone in particular?

David

yes my great uncle sgt William Weldon,I have his medal index card and I know for sure that he arrived in western front on the 5th of november 1914.I know that they trained for a few weeks before being sent to the actual frontline trenches,and the clasp was awarded to those who were actually under fire up until the 22nd of november 1914.There is no mention of clasp on his M.I.C,Im still not really sure if he is entitled to the clasp as a member of the Glasgow Highladers,9th batt,who arrived in La Harve on the 5th nov 1914.His M.I.C. states he was entitled to the 1914 star,British and victory medals.There is however a symbol on the card the card that I dont recognise and havent seen on any other cards I have looked at.There is also no mention of this symbol in the ,how to read M.IC.produced by the national archives.I can only describe it as a cross with a 4 dots ,one in each corner of this cross.It appears twice on his medal index card.He is easy enough to find in the list of M.I.C.as although there are a few William Weldons who have M.I.C. he is the only soldier,and sgt in the Glasgow highlanders who fought in the great war.He was one of the pre war territorials and was numbered 16044,before being renumbered.He served the entire war and survived having being wounded twice.Unfortunately his records were destroyed during the blitz,as were many other soldiers records.Thanks for the response and I hope you can help.Gerard

[robertsim]

Gerard,

I don't know what information you have been able to find out, but looking at Alec Weir;s "Come on Highlanders" 1644/330177 Sgt Weldon is listed as serving 1914-16, the fact that he has a 6 figure number indicates he was still serving with the GH in early 1917. Perhaps he was wounded in 1916 and didn't return to the front?

You may have already found the War Diary online at http://www.rhf.org.uk/

Cheers,

Rob

[dycer]

Battalions,whose members were entitled to claim the Clasp and Roses,are recorded in an Army Order.

I should emphasise-entitled to claim-.

Many men,who were entitled did not claim or there was no-one around to either claim on their behalf or substantiate their legitimate claim.

George

[gerard]

Gerard,

I don't know what information you have been able to find out, but looking at Alec Weir;s "Come on Highlanders" 1644/330177 Sgt Weldon is listed as serving 1914-16, the fact that he has a 6 figure number indicates he was still serving with the GH in early 1917. Perhaps he was wounded in 1916 and didn't return to the front?

You may have already found the War Diary online at http://www.rhf.org.uk/

Cheers, He did serve until the end of the war.Weir only gives 1914-1916 date due to the renumbering.I have it as oral family history from my mother and aunt,80 and 88,both still very much alive,that he was demobilised after 11,11,1918.I also have an extract taken from the war diary of sgt Guttridge,glasgow highlanders,one of williams pals,that he was wounded at Montay on the 12th of October,1918.thanks.GERARD

Rob

[robertsim]

Cheers, He did serve until the end of the war.Weir only gives 1914-1916 date due to the renumbering.I have it as oral family history from my mother and aunt,80 and 88,both still very much alive,that he was demobilised after 11,11,1918.I also have an extract taken from the war diary of sgt Guttridge,glasgow highlanders,one of williams pals,that he was wounded at Montay on the 12th of October,1918.thanks.GERARD

That makes sense, I know Weir doesn't claim to be a complete record. Is the Sgt Gutteridge diary a personal item, it would be a useful thing to add to my records for the GH if a copy was available. My great uncle died at High Wood.

War Diary entry for 12/10/1918:

[12 October 1918: transit - about 2 miles northeast - from bivouacs at Troisvilles to front line attack at Montay (just north of Le Cateau-Cambrésis)]

0030: Batt moves to position for attack.

0300: Enemy’s shelling causes about forty casualties in Batt. HQ Coy suffered most. Men behave splendidly. Bridges and jumping off place reconnoitred by CO and scouts.

0200 [sic]: Batt moved off from Batt HQ. A & SH in K 26 b 2.4 and marched down ravine to MONTAY CHATEAU in K 22 a 4.1, thence along road to K 15 d 3.0 and down to bridge over SELLE RIVER at K 15 d 8.6. During the march down the ravine the Batt was heavily shelled resulting in about thirty (30) casualties.

0445: Batt was formed up for attack on road in K 16c in touch with 16th KRRC on left. “C” Coy was on right front, “A” Coy left front, “D” Coy in support to “C” Coy and “B” Coy in support to “A”. Each Coy was in two waves on a two platoon frontage. During the forming up heavy rifle and machine gun fire was opened by enemy but did comparatively no damage owing to the Batt being in dead ground.

0500: Attack commenced, Coys moving in a NE direction, the first objective being the Railway at K 16 c 8.5. The enemy put down a heavy barrage on road from K 15 d to K 12 c causing heavy casualties and a nest of Machine Guns on the RAILWAY at K 16 c 8.5 also inflicted heavy losses. A belt of wire running along about 60 yards from the railway and the concentrated Machine Gun fire made it impossible to advance. The leading Coys decided to withdraw to the road.

0600: It was found that the KRRC had reached the railway on our left and it was decided to advance again and take the Machine Gun nest from the left.

0705: This was done and the MGs & about forty (40) prisoners taken. A further advance was then attempted but heavy MG fire from along the railway in K 22 b and some practice trenches made this impossible. Two of the Machine Guns of the MGC attached to the Batt were posted on railway on right of Batt to protect the flank and a captured MG used to cover the right rear of Batt. As an advance could not be made to the front it was decided to work up a small depression S of ravine in K 16 a & b and attack from that direction. A small party reached K 16 b 9.9 but on arriving there found that the KRRC on left were falling back. Our party therefore withdrew to Railway.

0920: Heavy barrage came down on Railway lasting about 1½ hours and caused a number of casualties. It then lifted and came down on the Valley behind. During the barrage the enemy worked round on RIGHT in twos and threes and crossed the Railway at K 22 g 4.5. They were engaged with Rifle, Lewis and Machine Gun fire but managed to get on and shortly afterwards heavy MG fire was opened by them along the Rly from emplacements dug in the cutting.

1020: It was found that the KRRC’s flank had also been turned and that the enemy were working round behind them. In order to avoid being cut off completely a withdrawal was made to the ROAD and we consolidated. The enemy had by this time established MG posts at K 22 b 1.8 and K 9 h 8.0. From the latter he was able to enfilade the ROAD. He also at this time reoccupied the RAILWAY. While digging in on the ROAD we were heavily shelled by the enemy.

1800: Batt was ordered to withdraw and dig in on a line K 15 h 4.4 to K 15 h 8.2 this side of the SELLE RIVER. Posts were established on road at K 16 c 3.6 and K 16 c 4.4 to cover the approach to the bridges. Touch was established with 1st South Africans on RIGHT and the 16th KRRC on LEFT. The remainder of the day passed fairly quietly and the wounded were all carried to the aid post.

Cheers,

Rob

[gerard]

Cheers, He did serve until the end of the war.Weir only gives 1914-1916 date due to the renumbering.I have it as oral family history from my mother and aunt,80 and 88,both still very much alive,that he was demobilised after 11,11,1918.I also have an extract taken from the war diary of sgt Guttridge,glasgow highlanders,one of williams pals,that he was wounded at Montay on the 12th of October,1918.thanks.GERARD

That makes sense, I know Weir doesn't claim to be a complete record. Is the Sgt Gutteridge diary a personal item, it would be a useful thing to add to my records for the GH if a copy was available. My great uncle died at High Wood.

War Diary entry for 12/10/1918:

[12 October 1918: transit - about 2 miles northeast - from bivouacs at Troisvilles to front line attack at Montay (just north of Le Cateau-Cambrésis)]

0030: Batt moves to position for attack.

0300: Enemy's shelling causes about forty casualties in Batt. HQ Coy suffered most. Men behave splendidly. Bridges and jumping off place reconnoitred by CO and scouts.

0200 [sic]: Batt moved off from Batt HQ. A & SH in K 26 b 2.4 and marched down ravine to MONTAY CHATEAU in K 22 a 4.1, thence along road to K 15 d 3.0 and down to bridge over SELLE RIVER at K 15 d 8.6. During the march down the ravine the Batt was heavily shelled resulting in about thirty (30) casualties.

0445: Batt was formed up for attack on road in K 16c in touch with 16th KRRC on left. "C" Coy was on right front, "A" Coy left front, "D" Coy in support to "C" Coy and "B" Coy in support to "A". Each Coy was in two waves on a two platoon frontage. During the forming up heavy rifle and machine gun fire was opened by enemy but did comparatively no damage owing to the Batt being in dead ground.

0500: Attack commenced, Coys moving in a NE direction, the first objective being the Railway at K 16 c 8.5. The enemy put down a heavy barrage on road from K 15 d to K 12 c causing heavy casualties and a nest of Machine Guns on the RAILWAY at K 16 c 8.5 also inflicted heavy losses. A belt of wire running along about 60 yards from the railway and the concentrated Machine Gun fire made it impossible to advance. The leading Coys decided to withdraw to the road.

0600: It was found that the KRRC had reached the railway on our left and it was decided to advance again and take the Machine Gun nest from the left.

0705: This was done and the MGs & about forty (40) prisoners taken. A further advance was then attempted but heavy MG fire from along the railway in K 22 b and some practice trenches made this impossible. Two of the Machine Guns of the MGC attached to the Batt were posted on railway on right of Batt to protect the flank and a captured MG used to cover the right rear of Batt. As an advance could not be made to the front it was decided to work up a small depression S of ravine in K 16 a & b and attack from that direction. A small party reached K 16 b 9.9 but on arriving there found that the KRRC on left were falling back. Our party therefore withdrew to Railway.

0920: Heavy barrage came down on Railway lasting about 1½ hours and caused a number of casualties. It then lifted and came down on the Valley behind. During the barrage the enemy worked round on RIGHT in twos and threes and crossed the Railway at K 22 g 4.5. They were engaged with Rifle, Lewis and Machine Gun fire but managed to get on and shortly afterwards heavy MG fire was opened by them along the Rly from emplacements dug in the cutting.

1020: It was found that the KRRC's flank had also been turned and that the enemy were working round behind them. In order to avoid being cut off completely a withdrawal was made to the ROAD and we consolidated. The enemy had by this time established MG posts at K 22 b 1.8 and K 9 h 8.0. From the latter he was able to enfilade the ROAD. He also at this time reoccupied the RAILWAY. While digging in on the ROAD we were heavily shelled by the enemy.

1800: Batt was ordered to withdraw and dig in on a line K 15 h 4.4 to K 15 h 8.2 this side of the SELLE RIVER. Posts were established on road at K 16 c 3.6 and K 16 c 4.4 to cover the approach to the bridges. Touch was established with 1st South Africans on RIGHT and the 16th KRRC on LEFT. The remainder of the day passed fairly quietly and the wounded were all carried to the aid post.

Cheers,

Rob

Can you give me the name and serial number of your great uncle please?The war diary hasnt been transcribed yet.It is hand written at the moment.It is held by the Royal Hihgland Fusiliers H.Q.in Glasgow.I also have a few photographs of my great uncle Sgt William Weldon/1644. It was taken at the end of the war,he is in full dress uniform,he is wearing a 1914 medal badge and you can see his 2 wound stripes.Will be in touch again soon.Gerard

[robertsim]

Can you give me the name and serial number of your great uncle please?The war diary hasnt been transcribed yet.It is hand written at the moment.It is held by the Royal Hihgland Fusiliers H.Q.in Glasgow.I also have a few photographs of my great uncle Sgt William Weldon/1644. It was taken at the end of the war,he is in full dress uniform,he is wearing a 1914 medal badge and you can see his 2 wound stripes.Will be in touch again soon.Gerard

Private Thomas Forbes Sim 4173/331434, he's the picture in my avatar.

The War Diary has been transcribed by Alec Weir and is available via the RHF website, you can download it directly for a small subscription or if you PM me have your e-mail address I can send it to you.

Cheers,

Rob

[gerard]

Hi,sorry Rob I think we are at cross purposes, I was talking about Sgt Guttridges war diary.It hasnt been transcribed and is held by Royal Highland Fusiliers H.Q.I HAVE a few pages of it and Im in the process of having a copy made of it.Your uncle may be in it but it is a long shot.Gerard

Private Thomas Forbes Sim 4173/331434, he's the picture in my avatar.

The War Diary has been transcribed by Alec Weir and is available via the RHF website, you can download it directly for a small subscription or if you PM me have your e-mail address I can send it to you.

Cheers,

Rob

[robertsim]

Hi,sorry Rob I think we are at cross purposes, I was talking about Sgt Guttridges war diary.It hasnt been transcribed and is held by Royal Highland Fusiliers H.Q.I HAVE a few pages of it and Im in the process of having a copy made of it.Your uncle may be in it but it is a long shot.Gerard

Sorry - misunderstood which diary you meant!

Rob

[gerard]

Sorry - misunderstood which diary you meant!

Rob

Hi Rob I dont know if you got last message Im putting together an article for glasgow highlanders association is it o.k. if I mention your great uncle in the article GERARD

[robertsim]

Hi Rob I dont know if you got last message Im putting together an article for glasgow highlanders association is it o.k. if I mention your great uncle in the article GERARD

Gerard,

Sorry, been off the forum for a while, no problem with any reference to Thomas.

Cheers,

rob

[dycer]

Please remember, that in any discussion about the H.L.I.

That a Company of the 8th Battalion was attached to the 8th Royal Scots,landing in France(Le Havre) on 5th November 1914 and experiencing front-line service before the cut-off date, for the Clasp.

George