Meritorious Service Medal 1916-1928

[green_acorn]

An ancestor of a friend was awarded the MSM in 1918 (T/SGT E. Mulquiny, 38th Australian Infantry Battalion) I am tring to find out what precedence the MSM 1916-1928 has, as it is not the 'normal' MSM for long service. I have read that this version of the MSM was stopped in 1928 on institution of the BEM and that those awarded the 1916-28 version were also allowed to use the post-nominal "MSM:".

In the units list of those receiving decoration and awards during the war they list the MSM recipients after the DCM's and before the MM, which does make some sense when the the respective number of recipients is taken into account.

I would also be very keen to find the Kings authority for the change to the MSM in 1916.

I do realise their is a book out there on the subject but it is not something we see often in Australia. I also don't really want to go and join the British Medals forum, its not something I would visit often.

Cheers,

Hendo

[welshdoc]

MSMs order of precidence comes after Jubilee/ coronation and before long service.

The 1916-28 ones were the Immediate awards, the other types continued into the current Queens reign.

[green_acorn]

welshdoc,

That's the rub, you have just given the expected answer, yet the Immediate Award required gallantry and had been listed on a unit list before the MM and as it was replaced by the BEM, I believe should be before campaign medals, whilst the current and other long service related MSM are as you describe.

Cheers,

Hendo

[Murrough]

Hi Hendo approx 26,200 immediate MSM's were awarded 1916-1928, of these appprox 400 plus 1 bar were awarded for Gallantry not in the face of the enemy.The London Gazette states the MSM's that were awarded for gallantry.This immediate MSM was in effect a second type of MSM and awarded for valuable and meritorious service, the london Gazette for your ancestor states that it was awarded for

His Majesty the KING has been graciously

pleased to approve of the award of the Meritorious

Service Medal to the undermentioned

Warrant Officers, Non-commissioned Officers

and Men, in recognition of valuable services

rendered with the Forces in France during the

present war:

While there were approx 120,000 MM's awarded,the MM was a bravery award while the MSM could be for,devotion to duty ,impeccable service,etc.

[green_acorn]

Murrough,

Thank you, the actual citation by 3rd Australian Div describes gallantry during several raids East of Ypres in 1917 and meritorious type service thereafter.

What I am actually trying to do is seperate the individual from the question and place the award in its precedence, modern references state what welshdoc has put forward, yet superficial period reference would suggest it was behind the DCM and before the MM, though by 1928 it was behind the MM and replaced by the BEM.

But I now have the contact detaisls to get the definitive response from the Honours and Appointment Secretariat and will persue that path.

Thank you to all.

Cheers,

Hendo

[Raldal]

The information from "British Gallantry Awards" by Abbot and Tamplin states that

"Dress Regulations for the Army 1900 show the MSM in the order of precedence of wearing immediately before the Army LOng Service and Good Conduct Medal. However, in an amendment to the Dress Regulations 0f 1911 made by Army Order No 246 of August 1912 the MSM was to follwo the Naval LOng Service and Good Conduct medal which, in turn followed its Army counterpart. In 1979 it was ordered to take precedence over the Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal."

So unless he wore his medals after 1979 the MSM should be worn AFTER the Army LSGC Medal, irrespective if an Annuity award or Immediate Award.

Strangely though I have one of the first BEM awarded to an Army recipient after the change to its current style and it appears to be mounted as worn with the BEM after the War Medals (i.e. in the position of wear of the MSM)

[green_acorn]

RMD,

Thank you, but your reference does not take into account the 1916 decision, which created another sub-category of MSM, the Immediate Ward 1916-1928, specifically for gallantry and meritorious war service, not related to long meritorious 22 year service. We don't have the MSM in Australia, but I believe the Immediate Award class were entitled to use the post nominal which other recipients of the MSM were not entitled to.

I will ask the Honours Secretariat and report back.

Cheers,

Hendo

[Raldal]

Sorry - Did not make it clear - The reference to the MSM and the precedence of wear in the book applied to the Immediate MSM established 1916 and there was NO change in the order of wear as established in 1911 for this "sub-type" of award.

Not sure about the current Australian policy but there was no OFFICIAL permission to use the initials MSM after the name for those awarded a Army MSM for WW1 service - excpet for some reason though Post Nominal letters M.S.M. customarily used when awarded for Naval Service before 20 June 1928.

[Murrough]

Hendo, is there any chance you could post the full citation here as you do not see many citations for the MSM published.

Best Regards,

Murrough.

[green_acorn]

This is the citation by 3rd Australian Division in its recommendation for the award of the Meritorious Service Medal on 3rd March 1918, it was passed forward after signing of by Monash on 7 Mar 18.

"As a member of several raiding parties, and also in the Operations East of YPRES in which his battalion was engaged in October 1917, this N.C.O. displayed great courage and coolness.

Since then, his general demeanour, courage and cheerfulness at all times, has had a great influence on the men of his Company and has helped to create and maintain a spirit which has been invaluable to his superior officers."

The generic citation in issue 30750, the Third Supplement of the London Gazette, for the many hundreds of Meritorious Service Medals gazetted on the 14th and 17th of June 1918 is:

"War Office, 17th June, 1918.

His Majesty the KING has been graciously pleased to approve of the award of the Meritorious Service Medal to the undermentioned Warrant Officers, Non-commissioned Officers and Men, in recognition of valuable services rendered with the Forces in France during the present war."

In the 38th Australian Infantry Battalions list of those members who received recognition during the war, the MSM recipients appear before the MM and I have read that if one received the "Immediate Award" MSM it did not remove the entitlement, if they qualified and were recommended, for the "long meritorious service" MSM, to be awarded or to wear a second MSM riband. But to me the crux of the issue is that they were different and I am guessing initially worn differently (ie: respectively before and after campaign medals), as evidenced by the Immediate Award MSM's eventual replacement by the BEM and the wearing of two ribands/medals if one was awarded both the 1916-1928 Immediate Award and the long meritorious service MSM from that period.

Cheers,

Hendo

[per ardua per mare per terram]

In his book The Meritorious Service Medal - the Immediate Awards 1916-1928, Ian McInnes lists various combinations that were shown in the indexes of the London Gazette. Six had the combination DCM, MM, MSM: shown in that order. The Royal Warrant that he quotes in full is from the London Gazette of 19th November 1920:

Gazette Issue 32130 published on the 19 November 1920. Pages 11310-11312

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/321...pplements/11310

[green_acorn]

Guys,

Thank you very much, unfortunately the link to the British Medal Forum is dead for me as I am not a member. "per ardua" thank you very much for the link, I shall pass it on.

Cheers,

Hendo

[Michael Johnson]

I can't imagine that any Royal Warrant would countenance different precedences for what was an identical medal. The BEM doesn't change precedence if it has a gallantry device.

[wulsten]

Can anyone one add anything relating to criteria for the award of the Meritorious Service medal, looked up a soldier named Alfred Blakeley 4133 R Lancs Regt who is gazetted for the award 3 June 1919 peace gazette, so any info appreciated

[Guest Rundberg]

Can anyone one add anything relating to criteria for the award of the Meritorious Service medal, looked up a soldier named Alfred Blakeley 4133 R Lancs Regt who is gazetted for the award 3 June 1919 peace gazette, so any info appreciated

It was instituted 1845 in the army and 1849 in the Royal marines. Cirka 70 years later in RAF and the navy. To get the award the person must have "good, faithful, valuable and meritorious service, with conduct judged to be irreproachable throughout". There is a limit per year of medal awards, 89 in army, 60 in RAF, 49 in navy and 3 to marines althogh in practise these numbers isn´t reached. According to the Medal Yearbook you could expect around £ 2000 if you are the happy owner of a Victorian 1848 type of MSM medal. Regarding the fact that only 10 medals of that kind were given it could well be a bit more....

I´m sure there are members that could give you a lot more about the medal.

Chris

[per ardua per mare per terram]

In 1916 the immediate award army MSM was instituted.

[welshdoc]

As it was in the LG it is an immediate award, a bit more than a good conduct -long service award and not quite a gallentry award. The fact it was awarded to a private also supports this as MSMs were normaly (as far as I am aware ) awarded to senior NCOs with a long service. Infact I dont think I have ever noted an MSM to "another rank" before. But that shows haw little I know.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/31370/pages/6881

[wilkie]

In Ian McInnes Book The MSM the Immediate Awards 1916-28 (page 249)

It says of Pte A Blakeley

Kings Own Royal Lancaster Regiment , mobilised at the outbreak of war in August 1914, he was shortly afterwards drafted to France and took part in the Battles of , Marne, Aisne, La Bassee, Ypres, Neuve Chapelle, Hill 60, Loos, Vimy Ridge, the Somme and Arras. He Suffered from Gas Poisoning at the third battle of Ypres, and was sent home, but on his recovery returned to his unit and was in action until the cessation of hostilities. He was awarded the MSM for devotion to duties in the field, and also held the 1914star, General service and Victory Medal, he was discharged in Feb 1919, 6 Hyde View, Grey Street, West Gorton, Mancheter.

An Incredible story !

Hope this helps

Bob

[per ardua per mare per terram]

I take it then that the recipient would have received a citation like MM`s hence no recording of why he would have gained the award ?

Your take on it just about sums it up. As you can see from Wilkie's post, the information avaible is general not specific.

[SteveE]

i also noticed that the book states that he was awrded the 14 star but his mic only states 15 star, so dont know if thsi is a mistake ?

Geoff

I'd be inclined to go with the MIC which has date of entry etc., the book has merely quoted the entry from the Manchester section of "The National Roll of the Great War" which, although a useful guide, isn't known for it's complete accuracy.

Regards

Steve

[Mark Abbott]

MSMs did have citations; sadly, most haven't survived. I have a 1914-15 trio and MSM to 200273 Cpl C A Furniss 1/5th Liverpool Regt.

Charles Alban Furniss was born in 1892, the son of Thomas and Harriet Furniss of 113 Rocky Lane, Walton on the Hill, Liverpool.

During WW1, he served with the 5th King's Liverpool Regiment and was awarded a Meritorious Service Medal in 1919.

The citation for the MSM reads:-

" This NCO has acted as Battalion postman since February 1915. I cannot speak too highly of this NCO's devotion to duty. The bringing up of letters, parcels etc under all conditiona and throughout all kinds of barrages has often excited the admiration of all ranks and there has never been one occasionto my knowledge where mails etc in his possession have not been delivered, whatever apparent difficulties were in the way. This work is in itself of greastest value in keeping up the spirits (at times of great strain) of the fighting troops and I strongly recommend that the of a very well deserved decoration be granted."

Signed:Lt Col J J Shute Comdg 1/5 Liverpool Regt.

Mark