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Remembered Today:

169th Siege Battery where did they fight?


Catherine Turner

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My Grandfather, 100957 Sjt Norman Hugh Hemsley, fought (and survived) in the 169th Siege Battery Royal Garrison Artillery. I have been trying to establish where the battery fought, and would welcome any information that anyone may have.

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On the 'Long, Long Trail' it states

169th Siege Battery France, 4 October 1916,

Good starting point!

Liz

I have found the graves of 3 men (all Gunners) from the same siege battery, in Zuydtcoote Military Cemetery (November 1917), Quatre-Vents, Estree-Cauchy (April 1917) and at Nine Elms, Poperinge (Belgium)(November 1917).

I am not sure of the next step, where to find the information as to where the siege battery fought, would they have been assigned to a Regiment? a Battalion? if so where might I find that information?

Thanks

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Welcome to the forum Zipper,

I’m afraid the official diary is a poor one, a paltry nine pages with no names mentioned. Taken from my database follows a short résumé:

169 Sge Bty landed at Bouglonge 5-10-1916, and quickly proceeded to a position NE of Mametz Wood in support of the attack on Butte de Warlencourt.

With complement consisting mostly of North Country men, recruited under the Derby Scheme who joined in March to June, and armament of 4 x 8 in MK V Howitzers.

In December with the changes to the front line after Allied advances, a change of Corps meant taking over the guns & equipment of 78 Sge Bty, whilst handing over theirs to 145 Sge Bty.

In Jan 1917 the Bty moved to Albert taking over French battery positions for counter battery work, the sections splitting under different HAG’s. March moved north to Ablain St Nazaire where the battery experienced terrible problems getting the guns into position. If you research this position you will understand why, as it is on a very steep slope for such weighty pieces, but offered superb high ground visibility. Early Apr finds them employed destroying the Vimy Ridge barbed wire defences, and later in the month pushing forward to Souchez.

28-5-1917 their armament was expanded with an additional two new 8 in Howitzers Mk VII, when they became a 6 gun battery, a section joining from 310 Sge Bty.

In June the left section moved to Vermelles bombarding trenches on Hill 65. July finds them in the Canadian Corps and the battery moved to Bullygrenay until Aug when they supported the assault on Hill 70 and Lens, moving to Calonne on the 19th. Here they supported the attacks on Green Crassier & district and suffered their heaviest casualties in the process. The official war diary ends at 1-9-17, so to find more information from this point onwards you need the HAG diaries, the higher formation groups they were part of at various times. The battery was complete to 64 HAG 6-10-1917, followed by a 3 week rest period from 5-12-17 to 27-12-17 in 66 HAG at Clairmarais old aerodrome NE of St Omer. Finally 169 joined 51 HAG 28-12-17. This Brigade war diary can be found at Kew under NA ref WO95/473 and is the one that covers the period in which your ancestor was awarded his MM. The 169 Sge Bty war diary is in the same box.

Rgds Paul

PS: HAG = Heavy Artillery Group

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Here is another gunner who may well have been transferred from another unit. If or which one would be hard to prove without his service records. If he lived Portsmouth/Southampton then one may speculate that he was in the Hants. RGA. One may be lucky and find something in the local press to where he lived.

Kevin

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  • 6 years later...

Hello. I am researching 169 Siege Battery in which my Grandad Harry Smith was a Gunner who survived from the time the Battery went out to the end of the War. I have been reading the 3 relevant war diaries - Siege Battery 169 (Oct 16-Sept 16), 64 HAG (Oct 17-2nd Nov 17), 51 Mixed Brigade RGA (1 Jan 18-end of war) - but struggling with the trench references. Could anyone help me to the right map to look at and the right spot for B.25.o.64.84 (War Diary of 64th Heavy Artillery Group 9 October 1917)  somewhere near Hazebrouck? Would you agree that the Battery was involved in supportive cooperative work in the 2nd Battle of Passchendale or is there any other view on this?

 

Any help gratefully received, Owl

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2 hours ago, Owl200 said:

Hello. I am researching 169 Siege Battery in which my Grandad Harry Smith was a Gunner who survived from the time the Battery went out to the end of the War. I have been reading the 3 relevant war diaries - Siege Battery 169 (Oct 16-Sept 16), 64 HAG (Oct 17-2nd Nov 17), 51 Mixed Brigade RGA (1 Jan 18-end of war) - but struggling with the trench references. Could anyone help me to the right map to look at and the right spot for B.25.o.64.84 (War Diary of 64th Heavy Artillery Group 9 October 1917)  somewhere near Hazebrouck? Would you agree that the Battery was involved in supportive cooperative work in the 2nd Battle of Passchendale or is there any other view on this?

 

Any help gratefully received, Owl

 

Check the reference.  There is no map reference  B.25.o.64.84  However there is B.25.c.64.84.  The letter rferes to the quadrant a,b,c or d in the numbered square and the last two digits refer to the eastings and northings within the small square.   This isn't wholly helpful as there are more than one locations with this reference as the lettered squares A=Z  repeated across France and Belgium  sequences  about 30 miles apart. You need the map sheet or some other indication from the war diaries that tells you where roughly the unit was.  These maps show there a B.25.c.64.84 near Elverdinge North West of Ypres, which might have been sensible at the start of the Paschedaele campaign or just west of Arementiers      

France.jpg

Belgium.jpg

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Dear Sheldrake

Thank you very much. I have checked and you are right, it is c not o.

 

The Group HQ position is not given after it moves from Rest Camp at Hazelbrouk on 7 October 1917  but the diary says the positions had been partially prepared by Belgian labour, the ground was marshy and the country was absolutely flat.

 

The positions of the other SBs in 64th HAG on 8 October 1917 are given as:

136 SB A.26.d.78.85 and A.29.b.97.67

150 SB A.29.b.66.94

19 SB A.23.b.58.06

 

Does that help pinpoint or not?

 

Thanks again

Owl 

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Dear Sheldrake

 

I have been looking again and find that from from Hazelbrouk HAG 64 HQ went to Steenkerke which is near Vourne west of Diksmuide. They bought guns via Avecappelle sidings which is close by. 

This makes sense with the descriptions of the difficulty moving the heavy equipment etc due to conditions, the flat landscape .....

 

So I think the right map for SB169 is the one west of Diksmuide,

 

All best and thanks for your help

Owl

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  • 1 year later...

Hello, 20 plus years ago the diary of Serjeant P Davis SR/3187 came in to my late father's possession, he transcribed it and donated it to the RA museum at Woolwich. Here is the transcript for April 1918. The tragic events of 15th April has enabled me to discover that the author served with the 169th Siege Battery.

 

April 1st(Mon)

Some Boxing day, Visited Town - Rushing the gate, some sport- Poor Old M.P.s Fairly got the wind up. No signs of moving.

 

Apri1 8th (Mon)

20 mile walk through rain to Poix – got into a camp there. Tired out, some walk.

 

April 9th (Tues)

In camp, some bombardment going on. Got out in the evening and saw Mr Bowen. He is getting us out in the morning and shall try find Battery.

 

April 10th (Wed)

Out and some walk again of about 20 miles passed several villages and finally reached Beauchamps le Vieux where H.Q. supposed to be. Found them gone so staying the night in some old billets.

 

April 11th (Thurs)

Tramp to St. Maulin to Bde, Found them moving and our Btty out of the Brigade as we were giving it up as a bad job and were resting on the village green when we spotted one of our own 1orries. It didnt take us a minute to jump in and in due course we came up with the Boys who were on the move. Found them all well but has 1ost one Officer and poor Uncle and Clem who are missing after O.P. when the strafe started. Stopped for the night in a farm——of course our part was in a barn.

 

April 12th (Friday)

Staying the day here

 

April 13th (Sat)

On the move up the line, had a journey of about 50 kilos to Amiens are billeted for the night in a school. Weather wet and fritz is bombarding the town.

 

April 14th (Sun)

Going into position this afternoon – am with LX near Fentelles – got billet in cellar. Ome bombardment going on.

 

April I5th (Mon)

Woke up by Ben Waters coming in and telling us that the battery had been shelled and poor old Jock Wagstaffe—the Captain and two gunners ki1led while sheltering in a trench and Pip Poulter wounded whi1e getting away.  During the day fritz shelled us allout of the village and we dug in a bank for the night. About Bpm we had more bad luck, for fritz dropped a shell into a cellar where a number of the boys were, killing two and wounding six. One has since died. No one stopped in the village from that period.

 

Apr 16th (Tues)

On BC in a lorry. Plenty doing and we gave Fritz some stick which he is not backward in answering. Jolly good strafe during the night

 

April 17th (Wed)

Day off — spent in digging out a hole in the bank for our lodgings. Got some doors from village and made a passable job.

 

April 18th (Thurs)

On linesman - nothing doing

 

April 19th (Fri)

On OP. some game this, right up close to cachy and not far from Villiers B which we hold. Fritz in full view and so are we. Wind put up us soon after we got there with some big stuff close and then later Fritz dropped bombs within a hundred yards. We kept in our trench.

 

April 20th (Sat)

Still at OP. We are giving Fritz plenty of stick. The French 75’scan go some. Fritz putting plenty about us which makes you uncomfortable, he is knocking Fentelles about a lot. Had to put our gas masks on for gas just before leaving but it was only gas.

 

Apri1 22th (Mon)

On BC in the lorry this puts the wind up for there is a lot of small Pip Squeaks flying about. Some more of our men out.

 

April 23rd (Tues)

Resting. pretty decent.  Plenty of planes about.

 

April 24th (Wed)

Woke up at 3.30 by hell of a bombardment. Fritz attacking for Amiens. Its hell. Shell all over the place. Don’t know where to get. Out with 1amp in case lines go then I got what one would say slightly wounded. A shrap burst over me and a splinter went through my coat and hit my leg knocking me over. Just drew blood and bruised my leg, nothing more. On BC later and it was some work- Poor Harper killed and four wounded. We are ready to draw back.

 

April 25th (Thurs)

Fritz has failed for a counter attack by us has got back all the ground.

 

April 26th (Fri)

French troops and Arti11ery pouring in. French and British attacked this morning with success. Some sight to see wounded coming back, plenty of noise and shells flying about. Poor Jim Parker, the wireless man killed this morning, a small shell hit his tent. His assistant seriously wounded.

 

April 27th (Sat)

Heaps of 75' s arriving in our valley, don’t like it for its going to draw fire. Look’s as if the French are taking over from us. Hope so for I don't like this front.

 

April 28th (Sun)

We are drawing out to refit on 30th. This is good for we are like a Field Battery here, in fact in front of the lot. On BC again plenty of work.

 

April 29th (Mon)

Resting, not comfortable. French brought up 6 large guns and have placed in our bank, some game. The valley is full of gun. Fritz will never get through to Amiens from this part. Pulling out tomorrow. Received parcel from chummies. Cake bonny, stuff to give ‘em

 

April 30th (Tues)

Things not to bad. Pulled out this evening and stopped night at Saveule, outside Amiens. Good to be out.

 

 

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