4thGordons Posted 5 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 5 September , 2009 Sorry about the delayed reply. Thanks very much for the pictures - the last one is also very interesting! I have obtained a couple of examples and am awaiting the delivery of one more. What I was actually wondering about was specific maker's stamps on the bayonets. I know some are stamped with a makers name but one I have just has a symbol and I wondered what it was. I'll see if I can photograph it (it is quite light) and post here. Since I have been looking around at German bayonets I have been surprised at the number of reproduction bayonets that are being sold (some marked as repro. many not), collecting in this area must be something of a minefield given the prices asked. pics to follow Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 5 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 5 September , 2009 Here are the marks - best photos I could manage, sorry. One side, a small pyramid with a cross in the middle Opposite side Triangle with a symbol (a D with a house? in it) and ???KOPP -WERKE A.G. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 5 September , 2009 Share Posted 5 September , 2009 Here are the marks - best photos I could manage, sorry. One side, a small pyramid with a cross in the middle Opposite side Triangle with a symbol (a D with a house? in it) and ???KOPP -WERKE A.G. Chris I am guessing this must be a Sg. 98/05nA "Butcher Blade," is that correct? Dated 1917? The producer of the blade blank was most likely GOTTLIEB HAMMERSFAHR & Cie SOLINGEN-FOCHE. That is their Pyramid trademark without the company name, and should be stamped on the right. DURKOPP WERKE A.G. BIELEFELD is most likely the firm that finished the bayonet. The trademark is a triangular shape including the company name with large D enclosing a small factory. It is stamped on the left side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 September , 2009 Correct on all counts. I cannot make out/find a date stamp (should this be on the spine of the blade?) but otherwise you hit everything. Thanks for the information. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 6 September , 2009 Share Posted 6 September , 2009 Yes, the date should be on the spine, but some from Durkopp have been found to be undated. Would love to see pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 September , 2009 Yes, the date should be on the spine, but some from Durkopp have been found to be undated. Would love to see pics! As requested. Spine is blank. There is a small imperial proof on the top of the pommel, you can just see it on the top pic. Grips are a bit damaged as you can see but overall it has a decent patina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 6 September , 2009 Share Posted 6 September , 2009 I have an Erfurt. Handle and leather scabbard are in "attic" condition, but blade markings are sharp! Or how about a WW1 84/98 with the flashguard wrapping the tang? I've never been able to find out how many of these were made only that they were made from 1915-1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 September , 2009 My last offering until the postman gets here An ersatz bayonet. Not certain which - very similar to Sg 88/98 E.B.# 45 posted above. Mine appears to have had the partial muzzle ring ground off (perhaps Turkish mod?) Only visible markings are the small proofs on the spine of the blade shown on the left of the photo. Fits the GEW98 looks like it would have fit the GEW88 with the muzzle ring. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 6 September , 2009 Share Posted 6 September , 2009 Anyone any idea where I can get a pair of wood grips for a sawback? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gew98 Posted 7 September , 2009 Share Posted 7 September , 2009 My last offering until the postman gets here An ersatz bayonet. Not certain which - very similar to Sg 88/98 E.B.# 45 posted above. Mine appears to have had the partial muzzle ring ground off (perhaps Turkish mod?) Only visible markings are the small proofs on the spine of the blade shown on the left of the photo. Fits the GEW98 looks like it would have fit the GEW88 with the muzzle ring. Chris Chris ; you guessed right - it's been turked sadly , to include a turk scabbard. Here in the USA these turked former imperial german bayos are frequently found and rarely fetch more than $15 ... if they have original period unmodified german scabbards they are worth that for the scabbard , otherwise not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 7 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2009 Chris ; you guessed right - it's been turked sadly , to include a turk scabbard. Here in the USA these turked former imperial german bayos are frequently found and rarely fetch more than $15 ... if they have original period unmodified german scabbards they are worth that for the scabbard , otherwise not. Well I am glad I was right....if not glad about what I was right about! Although I paid a bit more than $15.00 for it, I did get it for my Turkish Mauser (in 7.92mm, I have never seen one in the original calibre) I hope that the bayonet I am awaiting is an unmodified variant - otherwise I paid far too much! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_Ward_14_18 Posted 4 October , 2009 Share Posted 4 October , 2009 BTW ---- I have been looking for years for a "heavy" 98/02 Did someone around here met such an item some day... Hi, It really is a bit of a beast!! Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gudnuff Posted 19 October , 2009 Share Posted 19 October , 2009 Here are a few of my Great War German bayonets, top center is an 98/02. Unfortunately it is not unit marked. The pride of my collection is bottom row just right of center is a 71/84 mitsage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 29 April , 2011 Share Posted 29 April , 2011 This is in reply to '4thGordons' timestamp='1252168283' post='1259000'] You mention that: "Since I have been looking around at German bayonets I have been surprised at the number of reproduction bayonets that are being sold (some marked as repro. many not), collecting in this area must be something of a minefield given the prices asked." I assume this is talk of repro's is in reference to the 98/05? Any suggestions as to how to spot such a repro? I was in Syria just before the recent problems started and saw two 98/05 for sale in Palmyra, both Mauser, with W/17 stamps on the spine, and small crown on the pommel. They looked original and I was thinking of ordering one, but having read your post... !!! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 16 December , 2018 Share Posted 16 December , 2018 On 16/08/2009 at 18:56, N White said: On the subject of ersatz, here's a fun one for the Gew88. It amuses me having a bayonet that's both French and German at the same time. Hello, Here is my contribution on the foreign ersatz bayonets used by imperial german army during Ww1. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 December , 2018 Share Posted 20 December , 2018 Now that is a wide range of Ersatz! Widest range I know of in any one collection! Well put together - and so many nice unit marked ones! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 22 December , 2018 Share Posted 22 December , 2018 On 20/12/2018 at 12:21, trajan said: Now that is a wide range of Ersatz! Widest range I know of in any one collection! Well put together - and so many nice unit marked ones! Julian Thank you very much Julian. My collection at your disposal!!!! Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 26 December , 2018 Share Posted 26 December , 2018 , funny pic Wyliecoyote . The end pic, must have been just for the photo, no one was that dumb, but still neat pic. I mainly collect S71 family of bayonets , and guns, the bayonets. A lot of period pics are, sadly, "Studio" pics, but stil a lot of soldiers with S71 (standard) on or with Gew 88 rifles, only few show the rare ones with soldiers, like Fusilier - PFM - Wurttenber PFM and the like , I got the bayonets, but years ago when the 88 rifles flooded the market, you could buy good ones for $100 every day, I kept putting off, too many other types to buy . . Now that sellers want a lot for a matching "88", I do not know if I will ever buy one . Should have bought a bunch when cheap, but is that not always he case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 26 December , 2018 Share Posted 26 December , 2018 5 hours ago, Steve1871 said: , funny pic Wyliecoyote . The end pic, must have been just for the photo, no one was that dumb, but still neat pic. I mainly collect S71 family of bayonets , and guns, the bayonets. A lot of period pics are, sadly, "Studio" pics, but stil a lot of soldiers with S71 (standard) on or with Gew 88 rifles, only few show the rare ones with soldiers, like Fusilier - PFM - Wurttenber PFM and the like , I got the bayonets, but years ago when the 88 rifles flooded the market, you could buy good ones for $100 every day, I kept putting off, too many other types to buy . . Now that sellers want a lot for a matching "88", I do not know if I will ever buy one . Should have bought a bunch when cheap, but is that not always he case? Steve you are correct. The collectors are pushing prices to high levels as they are buying anything concerning Ww1 items. 20 years before you could get a Butcher blade bayonet unit marked for 50 or 80 us dollars. As collectors are increasing the sellers are putting higher prices and is the well known story about offering and asking something. So a lot of fakes are coming from east Europe and Pakistan and are very well made so be carefull. I saw even a 98)02 which is a fake one. but I understood it when got it on my hands and it was lightweight. A Russian collector bought it for 500 euros although I told him is a fake. So beware and always ask the weight of the bayonet. If the weight is more or less over 50 gramms from the correct measurements given by the books do not buy it please. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaMike Posted 1 September , 2022 Share Posted 1 September , 2022 On 15/08/2009 at 23:11, 4thGordons said: Thanks... So let me rephrase... for argument's sake if one were going to pair bayonet types with rifles along these lines GEW88 - as a used by "reserve" units early war GEW98 - as arming troops in the front line in July 1916 Kar 98s -arming assault troops in March 1918 What would the suggestions be? were ersatz bayonets in use as early as 1916, were shortened blades? I see sawbacks with the sawback removed - when did this happen? and how about this for a question from ignorance... will Gew 98 bayonets fit on the Gew 88? (If so - were they issued with them or...) Chris PS OWSkule - my wife is a LSU grad! This answer's 13 years later but wtf....For anyone else who stumbles onto this after 2022 - Here's a couple of matches for you. The Gewehr 88 - Used an 84/98 1st pattern. Specifically designed for Troops such as telegraph and machine gunners where long bayonets were not required. Predecessor to the WWII 84/98 3rd pattern. They reverted back to the longer sword bayonets for front line troops so the shorter 84/98-I were issued to reserves. Another solid early war bayonet was the wood handled Ersatz S1914. A milllion were ordered in late 1914 through 1915 while the Solingen plants met the demands for the S98/05 and the S84/98's. One of my favorites! GEW98 1916 Bayonet for the Front line troops is the iconic 98/05 "Butcher Blade". KAR 98 would go well (Like a nice Chianti) with the S84/98-II (2nd Pattern). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 2 September , 2022 Share Posted 2 September , 2022 On 01/09/2022 at 07:07, AlphaMike said: ... wood handled Ersatz S1914. A milllion were ordered in late 1914 through 1915 ... I need to check when at home, but the million was the total of all Ersatz bayonets, the S.14's were made in batches of up to around 15,000 or so. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 2 September , 2022 Share Posted 2 September , 2022 The Gewehr 88 - Used an 84/98 1st pattern It must be here a misstype error as Gew.88 could nt attach a S84/98 type bayonet only S1871 or S1871/84 bayonets. Some errors are too in other text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaMike Posted 2 September , 2022 Share Posted 2 September , 2022 6 hours ago, AndyBsk said: The Gewehr 88 - Used an 84/98 1st pattern It must be here a misstype error as Gew.88 could nt attach a S84/98 type bayonet only S1871 or S1871/84 bayonets. Some errors are too in other text. On 01/09/2022 at 00:07, AlphaMike said: My bad, I did mean to say the 1871/84. Feel free to comment on any other errors. Unfortunately sometimes missinformation is picked up and passed along unknowingly. I have no problems with being corrected. Still learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaMike Posted 2 September , 2022 Share Posted 2 September , 2022 13 hours ago, trajan said: I need to check when at home, but the million was the total of all Ersatz bayonets, the S.14's were made in batches of up to around 15,000 or so. Trajan I stand corrected. See my previous apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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