bender02 Posted 12 August , 2009 Share Posted 12 August , 2009 Hello, I'm doing a map to follow the footsteps of the Australian 8th light Horse and I can't find the exact location of Tel Es Sheria on November 7 1917. If anyone could help me. Thank in advance. Olivier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 12 August , 2009 Share Posted 12 August , 2009 Olivier This is from the OH maps disc produced by the Naval & Military Press you may also find it useful to download The Advance of the Egyptian Expeditionary Force etc from the archive website here http://www.archive.org/details/briefrecordofadv00grearich see pages 140 & 141 for details & map of 7th Nov 1917 regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 12 August , 2009 Share Posted 12 August , 2009 Here's an enlargement of the above OH map 3rd ALH Brigade are bottom left, the tel is top right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender02 Posted 13 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2009 Thank a lot, this will help me a lot. Regards. Olivier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefR Posted 15 August , 2009 Share Posted 15 August , 2009 Michael Is the 378th Siege Battery marked on your map just behind the 60th Div? I can't quite make it out at this resolution, but it's of great interest because that's where my grandfather was and this will be the first precise location I've found. It was just about the time that they'd been without water for three days. Regards Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 15 August , 2009 Share Posted 15 August , 2009 Well spotted Jef This may be of a little more help This is also their only mention in the OH "The 74th Division, which was to direct, had as objective the line of works east of the railway, after which it was to cover the right of the 60th Division, seize the high ground north of Tell esh Sheria, and protect the water supply. The 60th Division and one brigade of the 10th were then to cross the railway and capture the trenches west of it to a depth of two miles. The remaining brigades of the 10th Division were held in corps reserve. The heavy artillery consisted of the 15th and 181st Heavy Batteries, the 378th, 383rd and 440th Seige Batteries, under the orders of Br-General A H Short, GOC. RA. XX Corps." XX Corps Order No. 13 (5th Nov 1917, issued 8.30 am) does not tell us very much either, but simply says in Item 5 "The Heavy Artillery Group, less 1 60-pdr. battery attached to 53rd Division, will move into positions north of the Gaza-Beersheba road to support the attack under the orders of the GOC RA XX Corps, who will allot objectives to the Group Commander." Good luck Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefR Posted 15 August , 2009 Share Posted 15 August , 2009 Many thanks for the maps and information Michael - very much appreciated. I've got a significant amount of information on the 378th SB now and, like Olivier and the ALH, I'm trying to plot their route through the campaign. I'll have to figure out shortly, how to post it on the Long Long Trail site. Warm regards Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 16 August , 2009 Share Posted 16 August , 2009 Jef Just a quick one - in the map references for the 378th SB, which map did they use? The published map for that area at the time was Tel esh Sheria 1:40,000 (August 1917) or the Sinai 1:250,000 map which also covered the region. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefR Posted 16 August , 2009 Share Posted 16 August , 2009 Jef Just a quick one - in the map references for the 378th SB, which map did they use? The published map for that area at the time was Tel esh Sheria 1:40,000 (August 1917) or the Sinai 1:250,000 map which also covered the region. Cheers Bill Sorry Bill, I don't know which map they used - though I would like to, it's proving quite a task to figure out where they were sometimes. I just checked the battery diary and there is a somewhat hazy pencilled note scribbled on 17th Feb 1918 that appears to say "Reference Map, Palestine 1/63360" which my calculator tells me is one inch to the mile. That just seems to complicate things because it doesn't fit either of the scales you quote. Any ideas? Cheers jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender02 Posted 16 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 16 August , 2009 I located Tel Es Sheria around here google map on the ? icon. I think that I'm wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 16 August , 2009 Share Posted 16 August , 2009 I located Tel Es Sheria around here google map on the ? icon. I think that I'm wrong ? Look at the satellite version of the map and enlarge it. Then pay attention to the twists and turns of the wadi, and to where it forks. I would say that Tel esh Shira was about three miles to the east of where you show the question mark Where you show the question mark now is too close to where the Hureira Redoubt and the Rushdi System were regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 16 August , 2009 Share Posted 16 August , 2009 Jef Thanks for that mate. I know which map they used now. My mistake too - Palestine 1:125,000 This was a general map issued to most units. They maps are too vague once they leave the rail line. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefR Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 Bill I guess there must have been a series of maps to cover the country at 1"/mile. Do you know what the title is? or how I might get copies? It would be useful to identify where map references in the battery diary, like "K 23 a 1.6.", actually were. All the best Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 19 August , 2009 Share Posted 19 August , 2009 (edited) As I understand it, the maps used by the EEF were based on the Palestine Exploration Fund maps drawn by Claude Conder and Horatio Kitchener on the Survey of Western Palestine (1872–1878) see the PEF web-site here http://www.pef.org.uk/maps/ These maps can be seen in detail on this web-site here http://www.jnul.huji.ac.il/dl/maps/pal/htm...al002368494.htm E.g: for Tel esh Sharia look at Map No. XXIV (if you don't have the MrSid plugin then click on the 'Large image' version of Map No. XXIV) This is the corner of interest to this thread Compare with post No.2 above It seems that copies of the 1918 version of the 1:63360 maps by the War Office, General Staff, can be obtained (but I have not tried this yet) see here regards Michael Edited 19 August , 2009 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now