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jainvince

Hohenzollern Redoubt

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egbert

The Kiesgrube seems to be slowly overgrown by a huge coal dump. The remnants seem to be waste land

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egbert

Do I see remnants of the large crater and its communication trenches here, or is it just an illusion?

...

post-80-1267354138.jpg

post-80-1267354190.jpg

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fritz

Egbert,

your assistance is really very helpfull. Indeed this is very mysterious. May be you are right and the waste land before the big rubble slope contains some remains of the war. Very interesting and perhaps Bernard can investigate this site or one of our French members?

This map may be useful for comparison.

Fritz

post-12337-1267361291.jpg

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stripeyman

Post 53, yes I think you are right, it does look like the faint out line of a crater.

Bob

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jainvince

Not sure about the crater, is it perhaps a tree but the possible trenches look even more so if you enlarge Google Earth so that it changes the angle from vertical to slanted. Certainly, this location is now on the itinery as are a couple of potentially intersting spots near the redoubt.

Bernard

post-23884-1267381036.jpg

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egbert

I did not mean the small spot ca 2 meters diameter -this should be just nothing -I mean the large crater circle which may correspond to the circular ?trench remnants?. (The one I have marked in orange colour)

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jainvince

Eqbert

Appreciate your comment. My thoughts were that my slanted view simply emphasised the circular trench. Strangely though, I cannot find a corresponding British Trench Map.

Fritz

Enclosed British Trench Map for 22nd September 1915 includes in green British Intelligence overprint. I have also added in blue the attack made by the Devons and Gordon Highlanders. A number of local soldiers were attached to the 8th and 9th Devons, 1 died on the 25th, another died later from wounds received and a 3rd died on 30th September, all around the area opposite Hulluch and the Quarries. Your relative and our lost soldiers do seem to occupy the same ground both here and in the Salient etc.

Bernard

post-23884-1267392527.jpg

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fritz

Bernard,

as I said Hulluch-Haisnes in those days was a quiet section of westfront. The only action recorded by my regimental history is this raid

" It was necessary to investigate the units on the other side. Therefore Unteroffizier Scheel, Fähnrich vom Hövel and Musketier Ralf (10th Company) made a raid. It succeeded to break in the British trench and they killed three Englishmen. But there were no sign at their bodies to recognize their units, the time was poor and so they retreated in their own trench."

In other cases we had the fortune to puzzle together British and German accounts, could find out the victims and their graves, but not here.

This is my grandfather Musketier Albert Krentel. The pic is taken near Ypres 3.11.1916.

Kind regards

Fritz

post-12337-1267470118.jpg

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jainvince

Fritz

Now that would be a challenge to colour!

Bernard

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fritz

Fritz

Now that would be a challenge to colour!

Bernard,

I know you have the ability to do that!

Here again a picture of the neighbourhood of Hohenzollern Redoubt. If you explore the region perhaps you will see this site? Wingles is next to Hulluch. The other view is from Somme.

Fritz

post-12337-1267558075.jpg

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jainvince
Do I see remnants of the large crater and its communication trenches here, or is it just an illusion?

...

Egbert

I got quite close to the site but its not the most savoury place to roam nor leave you vehicle/possesions. no doubt everything would have been OK but after a short walk trepidation (!) overcome us.

We did visit other places around so will post some other views shortly.

Bernard

Trench Map and Aerial of Simms Keep - north west of the redoubt.

Bernard

post-23884-1273692587.jpg

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jainvince

View of the northern part of the Loos Battlefield from the Rue Raoul Briquet looking towards the site of Simms Keep with the Double Crassier in the background.

Bernard

post-23884-1273692705.jpg

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Moriaty

Thanks to Phiphip for highlighting the ongoing threat to the Loos battlefield with InnoVent's plan to erect three 650 foot tall wind turbines close to the site of the Hohenzollern Redoubt. 

 

My grandfather, along with many other soldiers, was killed near this site and I would like to register my concern about this.  Can anyone update me on the current position and how this can be publicised and where people can express their concerns.

 

Last month I emailed  DNECV (Défense de la Nature, de l’environnement et du Cadre de Vie d’Auchy Les Mines et ses alentours) but never had a response.

 

Moriaty

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roundtuit

I do not know the latest news on this proposal, for 3 turbines, which look as though they are intended to be bang in front of the H redoubt. I do know that, massive local opposition was voiced, against the original plan, recently, for up to 10 turbines, and that proposal was set aside? Now they have come back with the current plans.

I will chase this up with Mike Credland to see what, if anything, can be done to protest. I have shared the newspaper article on social media, but that only goes so far.

In the meantime I will email my friend Jean-luc-Gloriant for the latest news.

 

Roundtuit

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Moriaty

Thanks Roundtuit, I had been alerted to this by Jean-Luc

 

Moriaty

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roundtuit

Got an email back from Jean-Luc. He tells me that the local Mayor, and the people are against the plans. He says that the decision rests with the Prefect of Pas de Calais, and that decision will be made on 13th Jan 2018(ie tomorrow). He is of the opinion that the turbines will be approved.

Jean-Luc has contacted various journalists including the BBC. and Scottish organisations, to protest, all to no avail.

I have not yet spoken to Mike Credland, but he also has been registering his protests.

 

Unfortunately, we in UK do not have much influence over matters such as this. We have to hope that the locals have made enough protests to prevent this plan.

 

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egbert

I do hate these massive windturbines - but

 

I believe they are the best method to safe the battlefield. No housing, factories etc are allowed in a certain radius around the windmills. Better some small isolated foundations for the masts than large developments of infrastructure, subdivisions with streets, plants etc.

The agenda of the local major possibly does not necessarily correspond to saving the battlefields but to use the battleground argument  to block the nasty windmills for future communal developments. Nobody  wants to live near the moving cast shadow and the horrible sound of turning windmills. For housing the legal distance noise threshold from wind turbines is currently 40dB, measured in the night.

 

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SiegeGunner

I tend to share Egbert's view.  Wind turbines (like golf courses) have a relatively low impact on the land, but largely prevent further development in the same vicinity.  Most important of all, though, is that they can be removed in the future and the ground reinstated.   Once a piece of land has houses or industrial buildings and roads built upon it, it is lost for the foreseeable future and very likely forever.

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trajan

Of course, with my archaeological hat on, I see this proposed development as a chance to do some real archaeology on the site before any development... I won't obviously go into the inns and outs of the need or not for such a development, but having spent some time of my previous career in archaeology looking into those windmills and watermills that cluttered the GB landscape before 1850 or so, well - need I say more? 

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roundtuit

In my view, wind turbines are ancient technology and are far from efficient. They certainly should not be placed on a site, where perhaps hundreds of our fallen still lie.

Yes, a turbine does occupy only a small space, as windmills and watermills used to. What about the infrastructure? Service roads, connecting cables. collection buildings etc.

While turbines are being erected the work site is a huge area, to accommodate the equipment needed.

I am familiar with this area, I cannot see much prospect of any significant development in this region.

 

We have to wait for the outcome, and hope the plan is refused. 

 

Roundtuit

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Moriaty

Thanks for the update and views on wind turbines.

 

It is only a few years since the Hohenzollern Redoubt was a dumping ground, but then came the new 46th (North Midland) Division memorial at Auchy and the tremendous centenary commemorations organised by Auchy les Mines in 2015.

 

Moriaty

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roundtuit

Just been informed that there is meeting on 18th Jan. with the Marie, the landowner and the local people, who are in the majority against. The Prefect's decision is still not known.

The locals are resolved to not back down.

Scant detail, but there is some mention of historic awards? for the area.

 

Some newspaper coverage can be found here. La Voix du Nord.

 

Regards Roundtuit

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Moriaty

Thanks Roundtuit, do please update the Forum if you get any further info.

Moriaty

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