The Loss of the Leasowe Castle

[Doc Disney]

Helen - Thanks. The South Notts Hussars was first sent to Egypt and then to Gallipoli to fights as infantry. It then remained in the Middle East serving in Egypt and Palestine Campaigns before moving to the Western Front in 1918 with the Warwickshire Yeomanry as 'B' Bn. Machine Gun Corps. which in August 1918 became 100th (Warwick and South Notts Yeomanry) Battalion, M.G.C.

The Loss of the Leasowe Castle is covered in Chapter V1 of the 'Warwickshire Yeomanry in the Great War' by H.A.Adderley - 35 pages in all providing a useful outline of the Bn's activities with Fourth Army until demobolization January-May 1919. You ought to be able to borrow a copy through your local libary, or failing that come and see me in the WY Museum.

Both the South Notts Hussars and Warwickshire Yeomanry have Museums - see

www.armymuseums.org.uk/

Philip

[Doc Disney]

Thanks I've now found the South Notts Hussars Museum. I'd really like to find out more about Thomas and determine if in fact he is a relative of Alfred's . I have their medal index cards so a need to get any information from the medal rolls next. Neither set of service records survived.

Was gas a very common problem as I understand Alfred was gassed at some point during the war. Helen

[Philip Wilson]

Thanks I've now found the South Notts Hussars Museum. I'd really like to find out more about Thomas and determine if in fact he is a relative of Alfred's . I have their medal index cards so a need to get any information from the medal rolls next. Neither set of service records survived.

Was gas a very common problem as I understand Alfred was gassed at some point during the war. Helen

Helen

Yes, to answer your question, there is a useful section in the Long, Long Trail on the use of Gas, released by way of cylinders in vapour form or far more effectively by way of gas shell. Gas being classified into lethal and irritant.

Philip

[tharkin56]

this is another ambrose cole and ernest william swift (21/8/15 died)

[Philip Wilson]

Thanks for the newspaper cutting.

Philip

[Philip Wilson]

Philip

Interesting subset to the above. The following is taken from The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848-1954) originally printed Thursday 16 January 1919, page 4:

"After an unsuccessful attempt had been made to torpedo the Canberra, the Leasowe Castle, carrying 2,500 British troops from Mesopatamia to France, was

attacked at night outside Alexandria. The vessel was lured into a trap. A German spy, in the uniform of the British soldier dived overboard before the torpedo found

its mark, and was sighted under the search-lights of the destroyers, keeping himself afloat with a lifebelt. He was rescued, only to be court-martialled and shot. The wire-

less operator, the adjutant of one of the regiments carried, and 93 men lost their lives in the explosion, which rent the Leasowe Castle".

No sure how much substance there is to this but thought it was worth sharing.

Regards

Dave

Dave

Thanks - well this certainly adds another dimension to the story which I have not heard of before.

Philip

[dsbeaumont]

This is my first post on site. Have just read with interest all your comments on Leasowe Castle. My grandfather was on her when she sank in 1918. His name was John Henry Brown (Harry). Unfortunately i dont know which regiment etc he was in although he was from Nottingham. My mother told me some things but sadly i did not write it down although i seem to remember she said he helped save a guy called surname Marshall who might have been a football player before the war. . I see that June 54 mentioned a Fred Marshall.Wonder if this is same guy. I seem to remember my granddad was in Middle East and maybe Gallipolli although not sure. Is there anyway i can find which regiment he would have been with. Thanks Dave

[melliget]

Welcome, Dave.

A few questions. Your grandfather survived the sinking, did he? Was he born in Nottingham? What was his date of birth?

regards,

Martin

[dsbeaumont]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for welcoming me. Yes he did survive the sinking. He was from Nottingham but will have to find his birthdate. I think he died in 1947/48. Will get back to you as soon as i get birthdate. Thanks again.

Regards Dave

[dsbeaumont]

Hi Martin

Grandfather was born in 1891, actual date cant find. Lived at 7 Martin Street, Nottingham. Married my grandmother in 1914 and died 17/3/47. Hopefully this is helpful.

Regards Dave

[melliget]

Dave.

Sorry, for some reason I thought you were talking about a sailor rather than a soldier (it may be time I got glasses). The date of birth is useful for the online index of RN ratings but not sure about the MICs - don't think the index has dates of birth (that info would be useful for other army records, no doubt).

You may find you get more responses if you post your query to the Soldiers forum:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/forum/1-soldiers-and-their-units/

I had a couple of stabs at finding him in DocumentsOnline advanced search:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...ype=powersearch

But a John or Harry Brown isn't as easy to locate as, say, a McGillycuddy!

Have a look at the National Archives' Research guides on military history (start here):

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militar...ory/default.htm

Obviously the more details you have, the better your chances. If you don't actually have his birth and death certs, you may want to consider chasing down those. They can sometimes provide useful information in your on-going search.

regards,

Martin

[dsbeaumont]

Thanks martin for your help. Will follow the links you gave me and see how i go.

Cheers Dave

[Holl]

Hello All,

My name is Eric and I am the great-grandson of the Leasowe Castle's Captain, Edward John Holl.I came across this forum while google searching my great grandfather. I live in America so I don't have a ton of information on my family history, but thanks to the Internet and places like this, I'm able to learn at least a bit. I knew nothing about my great grandfather until a relative over in England passed away. I only met this relative a handful of times when she came over to visit America. We called her "Aunt Millie" though she wasn't my true aunt. I believe she was my grandfather's sister which would make her Captain Holl's daughter. I only have vague memories of Aunt Millie, but I remember her having a lovely accent and that she always called me E.J. (and was the only person ever to do so). Maybe this was in reference to her father?

Anyway, when she passed away, she willed us some items relating to Captain Holl. My oldest brother received an old book which had a section on the Leasowe Castle (I do not recall the name of the book, but if you would be interested, I can ask my brother if he has it and see if there is any new information it). My other brother received a very stern looking portrait of Captain Holl painted by his son (my grandfather, Francis who served in WW1 with England and WW2 with USA) and also a bronze plaque that was so scratched it was impossible to read. I received the medals which were award to Captain Holl posthumously. They are the Distinguished Service Cross and the Sea Gallantry Medal.

I'm sorry I don't have something more substantial to add, but I thought since it relates to the topic and since there are relatives of crew members, I just thought you might be interested to know a little of the family history.

Cheers!

-Eric

[Philip Wilson]

Eric.

Welcome to the Forum - any information you may have on the loss of the Leasowe Castle would be most welcome.

Philip Wilson

Warwickshire Yeomanry Museuem

[tharkin56]

Are you compiling material for an exhibition i have come across a few more accounts from WY men in the local papers they tend to be more on the Wayfarer.

Thanks

Trevor

[Philip Wilson]

Trevor

Yes - possibly for later this year. We have a sizeable photographic archive, including diaries, newspaper cuttings and papers covering the Warwickshire Yeomanry in the Great War - mainly Gallipoli, Egypt, Palestine and the Western Front.

Whilst the loss of the Leasowe Castle on 27 April 1918 is covered in Adderley's 'Warwickshire Yeomanry in the Great War' any additional information by way of newspaper accounts from WY survivors would be most welcome. The chances are we may have the info already but any digital images can of course be quickly added to our electronic archives - likewise any for the incident of the Transport Wayfarer on 10th April 1915.

Over the past two years much work has been done to improve our understanding of the exhibits on display including our archives. We have plans to develop an electronic database in 2011 - covering people, places and events. The WY Museum re-opens on Good Friday for the 2010 Season - the Museum is run entirely by volunteers.

Philip Wilson,

Warwickshire Yeomanry Museum Trustee.

[tharkin56]

I will pop over one lunchtime with a colleague whose relative was killed in the great war with WY, do you hold ww2 diaries ? Also the telegraph may do a bit on the reopening you want me to pursue for you.

Trevor

[Philip Wilson]

Trevor

Very kind of you. The Museum is normally only open at Weekends and Bank Holidays - see enclosed link.

http://www.armymuseums.org.uk/museums/0000...anry-Museum.htm

We re-open on Good Friday 2nd April at 11am, with a short photo call - ribbon cutting ceremony.

Yes we do have a fair amount of material on WW2 including some WY WW2 diaries. No doubt you are familiar with the book 'Yeoman Yeoman - The Warwickshire Yeomanry 1920-1956.' I suggest you contact me by pm to agree a suitable date and time to visit the Museum.

Philip Wilson,

Warwickshire Yeomanry Museum.

[Holl]

The books which were willed to my brother were:

"I.D." New Tales of the Submarine War

By David Masters

1935

Eyre & Spottiswoode

London

and

The Union-Castle and the War: 1914-1919

by EF Knight

1920

The Union-Castle Mail Steamship Co. Ltd

London

Both books contain brief chapters on the Leasowe Castle and they are basically narratives of the sinking of the ship. Both contain quotes from witnesses including the Chief Officer.

Phillip (and anyone else who might be interested), if you have not seen these books and would like the chapters I mentioned, please email me at ericdwinnells@yahoo.com and I will send you a PDF of the chapters. I believe I also have a picture of Captain Holl and I could also scan his medals if you would like to see those. Just email me and let me know what I can do for you.

Also, I've noticed in one of these books and various places on-line (including this forum) my grandfather's name is reported incorrectly. His name was Edward John Holl.

I wish I didn't live an ocean away, Phillip. I would be very interested to see your exhibit!

-Eric

Eric.

Welcome to the Forum - any information you may have on the loss of the Leasowe Castle would be most welcome.

Philip Wilson

Warwickshire Yeomanry Museuem

[Philip Wilson]

Erc

Thanks for drawing our attention to your grandfather's correct name Captain Edward John Holl.

Clearly there is a typographical error on page 174 of Adderley's 'History of the WY during the Great War'. Others at the time may have pointed this out to him. Unfortunately we do not have Adderley's original manuscript version of this book in the WY Museum. I will make sure our WY Archives are amended accordingly.

Thanks for the details of the two books and the offer of a photo of your grandfather. I will email you direct.

Best wishes

Philip

[27thBN]

The books which were willed to my brother were:

"I.D." New Tales of the Submarine War

By David Masters

1935

Eyre & Spottiswoode

London

and

The Union-Castle and the War: 1914-1919

by EF Knight

1920

The Union-Castle Mail Steamship Co. Ltd

London

Both books contain brief chapters on the Leasowe Castle and they are basically narratives of the sinking of the ship. Both contain quotes from witnesses including the Chief Officer.

Phillip (and anyone else who might be interested), if you have not seen these books and would like the chapters I mentioned, please email me at ericdwinnells@yahoo.com and I will send you a PDF of the chapters. I believe I also have a picture of Captain Holl and I could also scan his medals if you would like to see those. Just email me and let me know what I can do for you.

Also, I've noticed in one of these books and various places on-line (including this forum) my grandfather's name is reported incorrectly. His name was Edward John Holl.

I wish I didn't live an ocean away, Phillip. I would be very interested to see your exhibit!

-Eric

To see his medals would be great ,do you also have his service medals as well ,or just the gallantry ones,oh yes welcome to the forum

MC

[tharkin56]

I have a photo fourteen year old boy in the warwickshire yeomanry named A. pettit and served in egypt on the november 19th 1915. Is this the youngest warwickshire yeomanry soldier

[Philip Wilson]

I have a photo fourteen year old boy in the warwickshire yeomanry named A. pettit and served in egypt on the november 19th 1915. Is this the youngest warwickshire yeomanry soldier

Trevor

Clearly he made a false declaration at the time of his enlistment - there are sure to be others who did likewise. Some of them got weeded out before they left the UK - others when in Egypt with WY. 2828 Pte. Arthur Pettit's medal index card confirms Egypt with date of entry 6 November 1915. He was later sent back to the UK and discharged on 25 October 1916.

As for being the youngest Warwickshire Yeoman its hard to tell at this juncture - certainly a good contender for being one of the youngest. Are you happy to send me a digital copy of his photo for the WY Archives?

Philip

[Holl]

Attached is the front view. I'll post the back later tonight. These are the only medals I have.

To see his medals would be great ,do you also have his service medals as well ,or just the gallantry ones,oh yes welcome to the forum

MC

[Holl]

...and here are the backs. Sorry the images are so big, but I figured you'd be able to see the detail better. Inscribed on the side of the SGM it says "Edward John Holl "H.M.T." Leasowe Castle 25th May, 1918"