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Remembered Today:

G/32746, Henry John Walter Horace NORRIS, 16th Battalion Middx Reg.


Addzking

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I am currently researching an ancestor of mine who served in the 16th Battalion in the Middlesex Regiment. I know he was killed in action 11th August 1917. Aged 21. Enlisted Mill Hill, resident of Edgware, Middlesex.

His name is commemorated on YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL, Ieper, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium and I am off there shortly to view it (for the 2nd time). Am I correct in saying that if his name is on that memorial, his body was never giving a burial, or was not found etc?

Is it possible to find out how he was killed, what duties he was performing at the time etc? Is it possible to narrow down the location on where he was killed?

My estimation was that he could have been stationed in between Pilkem and Langemark when he was killed, but as I am new to researching military history, I wanted to get some more opinions from here!  :D

Is anyone able to shed any more information on this soldier or the actions of the 16th Battalion Middx Reg. during August 1917?

Any information would be most appriciated!

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Hi I believe the 16th Middlesex Regiment ( Public Schools)were with the 29th Division at Ypres in August and September of that year around Langemarck.

I`m sure an expert will be along soon to put that right.here is your mans MIC to be going on with.And yes he has no known grave.

post-10020-1249300742.jpg

all the best Gary.

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The best way to find out what his unit were up to and where they were located is to get some kind soul, who has a copy of the battalion diary, to do a look up for you for the date of his death. Be warned though it is very unlikely to mention him by name as he is O.R.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your search.

Edit to say I've just had a very quick look in the appropriate section in the forum and nobdy seems to be offering it.See here although it was a very quick look so I advise you to do a proper search yourself. You may be able to download it from the N.A. website and if I remember correctly the cost is £3.50.

regards

Ian

Edited by Ian Robertson
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Gary/Ian: Many thanks for your responses.

Am I right in thinking the battle for Langemarck started mid August? So would have been a few days after my solider was killed? So I am on the right track in thinking he was killed between Pilkem and Langemarck?

I had a quick look on the NA website, but im a little confused as to go about downloading the Battalion Diary? Any advice?

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Sorry I have never downloaded from the N/A.

The Book I got the info from said 8th Aug Engaged west and north-west of Langermarck.

Gary

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Sorry I have never downloaded from the N/A.

The Book I got the info from said 8th Aug Engaged west and north-west of Langermarck.

Gary

Ahhh so they were already engaged around Langemarck, but not actually attacking the town itself?

May I ask where you got this info from, what book etc?

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Hi Addzking

This is an extract from “The Die-Hards in the Great War” it is to do with the 16th Middlesex during the time frame you are looking at.

“After the battle at Pilkem the 29th Division relieved the Guards Division astride the Ypres-Staden railway, south-west of Langemarck, early in August, the 16th Middlesex going in to the front line on the 9th/10th west of the Steenbeek, with Battalion H.Q. at Fourche Farm, the front line was close to the western banks of the stream. On 10th/11th the Battalion pushed outposts across the stream in touch with the French troops on the left and the 1st Lancashire Fusiliers on the right. In this small operation 22 unwounded and 3 wounded prisoners were taken.

This attack was made, under corps orders, by three platoons of “A” Company of the Middlesex and three platoons of Lancashire Fusiliers. The platoons formed up in three lines west of the Steenbeek, and at 4.20 a.m., under a pocket barrage, Passerelle Farm, east of the stream, was attacked. The attack was successful and, besides the prisoners already stated, two machine guns and a howitzer were captured. The Battalion Diary states that the position was “consolidated and held,” but the Brigade Diary records that a second attack was necessary, during which the farm was recaptured, three more wounded prisoners being taken. On the night of 12th/13th the 16th Middlesex were relieved and marched back to camp, north-west of Elverdinghe.

Casualties during this tour were again heavy: 2 Officers and 30 other ranks killed and 4 Officers and 83 other ranks wounded.”

I hope this helps in your search

Regards

Nigel

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Hi Addzking

This is an extract from "The Die-Hards in the Great War" it is to do with the 16th Middlesex during the time frame you are looking at.

"After the battle at Pilkem the 29th Division relieved the Guards Division astride the Ypres-Staden railway, south-west of Langemarck, early in August, the 16th Middlesex going in to the front line on the 9th/10th west of the Steenbeek, with Battalion H.Q. at Fourche Farm, the front line was close to the western banks of the stream. On 10th/11th the Battalion pushed outposts across the stream in touch with the French troops on the left and the 1st Lancashire Fusiliers on the right. In this small operation 22 unwounded and 3 wounded prisoners were taken.

This attack was made, under corps orders, by three platoons of "A" Company of the Middlesex and three platoons of Lancashire Fusiliers. The platoons formed up in three lines west of the Steenbeek, and at 4.20 a.m., under a pocket barrage, Passerelle Farm, east of the stream, was attacked. The attack was successful and, besides the prisoners already stated, two machine guns and a howitzer were captured. The Battalion Diary states that the position was "consolidated and held," but the Brigade Diary records that a second attack was necessary, during which the farm was recaptured, three more wounded prisoners being taken. On the night of 12th/13th the 16th Middlesex were relieved and marched back to camp, north-west of Elverdinghe.

Casualties during this tour were again heavy: 2 Officers and 30 other ranks killed and 4 Officers and 83 other ranks wounded."

I hope this helps in your search

Regards

Nigel

Nigel, that information is fantastic! Thank you so much!

So it would suggest that he died whilst crossing the Steenbeek and attacking the positions at Passerelle Farm? And that it would be safe to assume that he was in A Company?

I am going to Belguim in the next few days and would be interested in finding the location of Passerelle Farm. Does anybody know the location of this farm or the site of where it was if it is no longer there? Am I right in thinking its on the Bikschotestraat road between Langemarck and Bikschote?

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The information seems to point in that direction ref “A” Company, but I would never assume anything.

Also there is an excellent picture of the Steenbeek taken August 1917 that will interest you at this site, about half way down the page.

www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/flanders/langemarck.html

Regards

Nigel

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I just wanted to say thank you to Gary, Ian and Nigel for the information you have all so kindly provided. I shall be visiting the area where Private Norris was killed in the next few days, and I couldnt have found out so much information if it wasnt for the helpful members of this forum.

Thank you again. :)

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