Canary Girls

[MsPersistant]

My grandmother was the oldest daughter of many more children - she was the first to leave the nest and went off to work "in service" at a big household in London. As war broke out - I was told by her now deceased niece that she and a few more of the sisters went to work in a munitions factory in Erith, Kent. The youngest of the three working sisters was very nervous of working in the factory - I am told the elements they worked with could be unstable and dangerous to work with. I think they were called Canary Girls (?) as their skin would turn yellow after working there as a result of handling the chemicals. I was also told it was customary to "lock-in" the workers - although I have no idea why? I have tried to check this out on the internet - but very little info seems to evolve.

It seems a shame that although these women "did their bit"...they were kind of "invisible" within the big picture of the more traditional female roles in the war...particularly at this time.

Do any of you other forum ladies have tales of women within your families that did this kind of work...I would be interested to know and I am sure many others would too.

In fond memory of all those that "did their bit" however humble. Ms Persistant

[Michael Johnson]

The staining was caused by picric acid, which is bright yellow.

[KONDOA]

Well Ms, I'm not a lady so far as I am aware, but!! My grandmother worked in the 303 ammunition line at Woolwich Arsenal having been previously a tram clippie and as a young girl "in service". I believe she was in the quality control and was under a chap called Todd - Hunter whos name continued to amuse her until her death in 1972.

Roop

[Heid the Ba]

Like KONDOA I too am the proud possesor of a Y chromosome.

There was a munitions factory in Gretna near where I grew up, I came accross these photos recently. Link.

[Kath]

I have two Aunts (my mother's older sisters) who worked in the munitions in Coventry.

One was only 17.

Leaving Mousehole, Cornwall, must have been an experience.

Kath.

[snavek]

Another Mr reply. You might like to try to get hold of 'Canary Girls of Beeston' published by the Beeston & District Local History Society last year and compiled by Maureen Rushton, one of its members. ISBN 978 0 9541485 1 5.

Its a good little read with lots of photo's and details of working conditions. You will see from my avatar that my wife's aunt was killed in an explosion there in 1918.

Keith

[MsPersistant]

Well Ms, I'm not a lady so far as I am aware, but!! My grandmother worked in the 303 ammunition line at Woolwich Arsenal having been previously a tram clippie and as a young girl "in service". I believe she was in the quality control and was under a chap called Todd - Hunter whos name continued to amuse her until her death in 1972.

Roop

Roop...what an idiot I am...I do apologise...I am new to forum communication and obviously wasn't on the ball the other night when I wrote about my grandmother. Have to say that it seems a huge majority of male knowledge evident here - and after spending most of my time wondering about my WW1 serving grandfather...felt I had to make a mention at least of the female element.

I will try to be more intelligent next time...Ms Persistant

[MsPersistant]

Like KONDOA I too am the proud possesor of a Y chromosome.

There was a munitions factory in Gretna near where I grew up, I came accross these photos recently. Link.

Fantastic pictures "Heid the Ba" thanks for that. I am sorry (see reply to Kondoa) - as I have explained...I am very new to this forum experience and already fallen flat on my face! So sorry...no offence meant! Ms Persistant

[MsPersistant]

I have two Aunts (my mother's older sisters) who worked in the munitions in Coventry.

One was only 17.

Leaving Mousehole, Cornwall, must have been an experience.

Kath.

Thank you Kath...did they say anything about the lock-ins? Seems rather harsh to me...?

I am familiar to Mousehole myself, and yes...must have been like venturing to another planet - leaving there for munitions work in Coventry. God bless them all for their involvement - however great or small.

Ms Persistant.

[Theo]

Another Mr reply. You might like to try to get hold of 'Canary Girls of Beeston' published by the Beeston & District Local History Society last year and compiled by Maureen Rushton, one of its members. ISBN 978 0 9541485 1 5.

Its a good little read with lots of photo's and details of working conditions. You will see from my avatar that my wife's aunt was killed in an explosion there in 1918.

Keith

Keith

Which Beeston was that? There is one on the outskirts of Nottingham, near the Chilwell munitions works. Is that the one you mean?

[MsPersistant]

Another Mr reply. You might like to try to get hold of 'Canary Girls of Beeston' published by the Beeston & District Local History Society last year and compiled by Maureen Rushton, one of its members. ISBN 978 0 9541485 1 5.

Its a good little read with lots of photo's and details of working conditions. You will see from my avatar that my wife's aunt was killed in an explosion there in 1918.

Keith

Thank you for this Mr Keith! I'm sorry (see other replies!) I am new to this forum and known for my faux pas by friends and family. No offence meant - your info above is very helpful...I have to say that I have come across very little information about the munitions girls and so anything to make sense of the various snippets of small talk that I remember from the now deceased "older gals" of the family - is interesting to me.

I am humbled to see your wife's aunt was killed in such a way - the youngest of my grandmother's trio of sisters at Erith was terribly nervous at the munitions plant - especially at being locked in...resulting in sometimes she would have to be removed from the factory for fainting - much to the chagrine of the remaining sisters who would have to accompany her out!

Thanks again...Ms Persistant

[TonyE]

Well Ms, I'm not a lady so far as I am aware, but!! My grandmother worked in the 303 ammunition line at Woolwich Arsenal having been previously a tram clippie and as a young girl "in service". I believe she was in the quality control and was under a chap called Todd - Hunter whos name continued to amuse her until her death in 1972.

Roop

Col.Todhunter (not Todd-Hunter) was an important member of the staff at Woolwich and was heavily involved with the development of special purpose small arms ammunition, particularly for air service.

His name lives on in the .303 inch R.T.T. explosive round, which stands for Richard Threlfall Todhunter, Threlfall being the inventor of the original principle.

Regards

TonyE

[Sue Light]

I think I can add a bit about the 'lock-in'. You say that your grandmother worked in Erith, and it seems likely that she worked for Vickers, who had a site there. Because of the dangers from Zeppelin raids, it was important to make sure that no light was visible when the factory was working at night - bad enough being bombed, but a real problem when you were surrounded by explosives. To be absolutely sure that no windows or door were opened by the women at night, Vickers decided to lock them in - all doors and windows. There was a real outcry from the women, who felt that they were in more danger as they would not be able to escape if they were struck by a bomb. So owing to demands from the women, the 'lock-in' stopped. Vickers have extensive archives at Cambridge University Library, but I have no idea what access is like, or what they contain relevant to munitions.

Sue

[female, but not a lady ]

[MsPersistant]

I think I can add a bit about the 'lock-in'. You say that your grandmother worked in Erith, and it seems likely that she worked for Vickers, who had a site there. Because of the dangers from Zeppelin raids, it was important to make sure that no light was visible when the factory was working at night - bad enough being bombed, but a real problem when you were surrounded by explosives. To be absolutely sure that no windows or door were opened by the women at night, Vickers decided to lock them in - all doors and windows. There was a real outcry from the women, who felt that they were in more danger as they would not be able to escape if they were struck by a bomb. So owing to demands from the women, the 'lock-in' stopped. Vickers have extensive archives at Cambridge University Library, but I have no idea what access is like, or what they contain relevant to munitions.

Sue

[female, but not a lady ]

Thank you Sue...I have wondered about this for years! My grandmother died long before it even ocurred to me to ask her about her life stories. I only found out about the sisters working in munitions when visiting the daughter of one of them - before she too died and all the information slipped away. Mavis talked for England and it was her chatting about Violet (my gran) Ruby (her mum) and poor Sylvie the nervy one that tucked away in my brain...luckily I am one of those that once something catches my attention - I can remember it forever...although I have to say I did wonder if she was exaggerating about the locked doors!

Very interesting.......Just about to sign off and wondering again...would this have been voluntary work do you think? My gran worked "in service" to a very good Jewish family in London and I wonder if she combined the two? I assumed the women did munition work as a sense of duty to their country - as there could not have been much else to appeal?

Thanks again...Ms Persistant.

[Sue Light]

Thank you Sue...I have wondered about this for years! My grandmother died long before it even ocurred to me to ask her about her life stories. I only found ...would this have been voluntary work do you think? I assumed the women did munition work as a sense of duty to their country - as there could not have been much else to appeal?

The work was essential, and dangerous, but the money was excellent - more than they could have got working in other 'women's work'. Rates varied according to the exact job they did, but I think £3 a week or so was pretty usual. So for most, other than patriotism, that was the main attraction.

Sue

[KONDOA]

"Col.Todhunter (not Todd-Hunter) was an important member of the staff at Woolwich and was heavily involved with the development of special purpose small arms ammunition, particularly for air service.

His name lives on in the .303 inch R.T.T. explosive round, which stands for Richard Threlfall Todhunter, Threlfall being the inventor of the original principle."

Thanks for that Tony, useful snippet and certainly adds to the knowledge of the activities of my grandmother during her serrvice.

Roop

[Heid the Ba]

No harm done Ms P, I get called worse on a daily basis.

[snavek]

Keith

Which Beeston was that? There is one on the outskirts of Nottingham, near the Chilwell munitions works. Is that the one you mean?

Yes, that's the one. My wife's aunt lodged there whilst working at the factory. Although I don't have a photo I believe she's named on their War memorial as well as her own home village of Beeston next Mileham in Norfolk.

Keith

[Ally Sloper]

I thought that you might be interested in a photograph album which is on display in the First World War exhibition at the Imperial War Museum in London. It shows women who died during the war and is open on the Munitionettes page. It records their names and cause of death, mostly from TNT poisoning although one died from burns she received while at work.

Unfortunately there was no reference number mentioned.

Ally

[johnreed]

A good book to read is "Nice Girls and Rude Girls" by Deborah Thom which is about Women Workers in World War 1. ISBN 1 86064 198 9

jOHN

[mpjbrennan]

Many of the "munitions works" (which included activities other than the manufacture of explosives) had women's football teams who played to raise money for various war charities. For anyone who is interested there is a lot of info on these teams and photographs of them on my women's football web page.

http://www.donmouth.co.uk/womens_football/...s_football.html

I would also recommend the following book written by a munitionette.

"Three Years or the Duration" by Peggy Hamilton, published by Peter Owen 1978 ISBN 0 7206 0523 7

Patrick

[Heid the Ba]

Excellent website Patrick, my maternal grandmother Mary Milne appears in your photo of Whitehaven Ladies. She was one of the schoolteachers you mention.

I'll try and track down an undamaged copy of the photo if I can.

[mpjbrennan]

Excellent website Patrick, my maternal grandmother Mary Milne appears in your photo of Whitehaven Ladies. She was one of the schoolteachers you mention.

I'll try and track down an undamaged copy of the photo if I can.

That would be very much appreciated!

Patrick

[Moonraker]

Flushed with success at at long last working out how to reduce the size of photos for this forum, I thought I might add this rather nice photograph of munitions workers at Spencer & Co, a Melksham company whose wartime role included producing 18-pounder shells. Its factory was visited by George V and Queen Mary in November 1917.

Some of the girls look rather nice, though I wonder why so many people are looking to their right (the left being the best sides of their faces perhaps). The two men on the left of the pic (as one looks at it)look a bit devilish. I do hope they didn't disrupt vital war work.

Moonraker

[susanhemmings]

My maternal grandma worked in the Woolwich Arsenal when she was a youngster - lived in Belvedere (Erith). Somewhere or other i have a photo of her amongst a group of other youngsters (all wearing - from my memory - dark dress with lighter stripes on it)......

susan