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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

61st Div


Guest JIMEDWARDS

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Guest JIMEDWARDS

Have relative listed Thiepval Memorial 23 Nov 1916. 2/4th Btn Royal Berks (184 Bgd.61st Div). How do I find out whereabouts of Btn at this date?

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Jim,

As there is not a history of 61 Div, you will have to try a regimental history, or the war diaries at PRO. Have you looked in Chris McCarthy's 'Somme, Day by Day', or Ray Westlake's 'British Battalions on the Somme'?

Rob

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For the most accurate (possibly to the day) account of the whereabouts, the batallion war diaries at the PRO must be the best bet.

Dave

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Jim

This is from the Btn War Diary for that date

France, Trenches

Normal artillery activity on both sides. Casualties 2 OR killed 5 OR wounded.

This is from the excellent www.thewardrobe.org.uk site, it has the Btn War Diaries for the 2/4th and is fully searchable, well worth a visit

Mark

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A reference some of the other forum members may be able to help you with is:

2/4th Royal Berkshire Tuesday 21st November 1916 France, Bouzingcourt

Battn relieved the 7th BUFFS and the 7th QUEENS in the trench sector R21 a 6.7 - R16. 22 central. Draft of 3 OR joined the battn. Casualties 2 OR killed 5 OR wounded.

If you are interested the two men that died on that date (one you are obviously!) They are:

5265 Pvt. Albert Barnett, Born Abingdon, enlisted Reading, resided Abingdon, KIA, F & F

6475 Pvt. Frank Cross, Born Bristol, enlisted Bristol, KIA, F & F

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This area of trenches (R21-R16) was the line held by the British at the end of the Somme, north of Courcelette. The 18th (Eastern) Division and the Canadians had finally taken Regina Trench on 11th November, and Desire Trench just beyond was taken by 4th (Canadian) Div on 18th November. The 18th held this ground when the Canadians pulled out, and the 61st in turn relieved them.

All the men who died this day are on Thiepval; but they may well be among the unknowns in Courcelette British Cemetery or Regina Trench Cemetery, as some of the post-war concentrations were moved into these two locations.

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Guest JIMEDWARDS

Amazed at the response! Big thanks to all. Just returned from visit to Somme,wish I had had this information beforehand but I didn't even know his regiment until I read the alpa listing at the Thiepval Memorial. Being a novice (but an enthusastic one) could anyone enlighten me as to what K & K means? It seems that he was killed as a result of the artillery exchanges that went on on the 23rd. Stoner came up with the NAMES of the two who were KIA on that date (Frank Cross - my wife's Grandfather). If he was identified at the time of death, how come he has no knon grave? Is it:

(a) He was known to have been in a certain position and was Blown to pieces.

or (B) Buried in a group and later moved.

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It's difficult to say what happened for sure; there were several burial sites around Courcelette by the end of 1916. Some were damaged by shell fire in March and August 1918 when fighting returned here; many battlefield burials were totally destroyed by later shelling. These men could well have been buried at the time, only to have their grave markers lost in later fighting.

"F & F" is France and Flanders; the theatre of war in which he died (i.e. the Western Front).

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Guest JIMEDWARDS

Thanks once again for the responses. Think this just about wraps it up. Will return again to the trench area to pay hommage, soon. Just occured to me that information was provided by THE Paul Ried, whom I had the pleasure of being guided on one of the Battlefield Tours in 2001 and recently saw in a TV production.

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