WHICH IS THE CORRECT MEDAL CARD

[Lynne Storry]

After two years searching to track down my Grandfather's WW1 history, and narrowing it down to ten George Loveridge medal cards, I finally tracked down a cousin who has a rather grainy picture of our Grandfather wearing his medals (attached). Grandfather came from Smethwick/West Bromwich, which is close to Birmingham, but was under Staffordshire in those days. The only information we had, was that he served in France at some time. We think he might have been gassed at some time also, as he suffered quite severely when older with his breathing. From this I have narrowed it down to two medal cards (attached). Can anyone match up Grandfather's medals to one of these medal cards for me?

ADMIN EDIT - image resized

[Staffsyeoman]

Lynne, there is only one card visible (the Ox & Bucks/R Berks) - possibly because the image is too big - but first thought is that this is not/not him as it mentions a 1914-15 Star - which is not apparent in the smaller picture (unless you can enlarge it).

[Lynne Storry]

Lynne, there is only one card visible (the Ox & Bucks/R Berks) - possibly because the image is too big - but first thought is that this is not/not him as it mentions a 1914-15 Star - which is not apparent in the smaller picture (unless you can enlarge it).

Sorry, I will have to reduce the size of the other medal card. From afar it looks like a large star medal. I will see what I can do with the original.

[Lynne Storry]

Sorry, I will have to reduce the size of the other medal card. From afar it looks like a large star medal. I will see what I can do with the original.

I now attach the second medal card

[Lynne Storry]

The image of Grandfather's medals is the best I can get. I wonder if the large badge above his medals is a regimental badge?

[SteveE]

Lynne

It may just be me but are you sure they're medals at all? To me the grainy image looks like it might be from a wedding photograph with him wearing his buttonhole. Below that looks like it might be three fingers? possibly held in a manner suggesting he's smoking?

As I've said it might just be me and my eyesight.....

Regards

Steve

[Lynne Storry]

Lynne

It may just be me but are you sure they're medals at all? To me the grainy image looks like it might be from a wedding photograph with him wearing his buttonhole. Below that looks like it might be three fingers? possibly held in a manner suggesting he's smoking?

As I've said it might just be me and my eyesight.....

Regards

Steve

Steve,

Now you have said this, I think it looks like he is smoking also. Will check with my father on that.

I have, however, checked the button holes other men are wearing at this wedding. Only the groom has a button hole and that looks to be a carnation. Whatever badge Grandad is wearing it seems to be squared off at the bottom. In fact it reminds me of the shape of an old fashioned wheat sheaf. It is definitely a regimental badge of some sort.

[Ghost]

I take it that you have checked to see if he has a service or pension record on ancestry. May sound obvious to some but!

Alan

[hmsk212]

I would go with the button hole suggestion. It looks like a flower tucked behind a folded hanky which is in the top breast pocket hence giving the image of a straight edge at the bottom.

Steve

[Lynne Storry]

I would go with the button hole suggestion. It looks like a flower tucked behind a folded hanky which is in the top breast pocket hence giving the image of a straight edge at the bottom.

Steve

Yes, I agree, it is very disappointing. Would you be able to tell from the two cards, which might be more likely to be my Grandfather. The only information we have is that he served in France and was gassed.

Lynne

[hmsk212]

Hi Lynne

How have you narrowed it down to these 2 cards? If you have narrowed it down to these two because they are the only ones that mention France then that is just down to the fact that both men went to France before 1916, quite a few of the other George Loveridges would have gone to France after 1st Jan 1916 and therefore France would not be mentioned on the Medal Index Card.

Steve

[Lynne Storry]

Hi Lynne

How have you narrowed it down to these 2 cards? If you have narrowed it down to these two because they are the only ones that mention France then that is just down to the fact that both men went to France before 1916, quite a few of the other George Loveridges would have gone to France after 1st Jan 1916 and therefore France would not be mentioned on the Medal Index Card.

Steve

That was the only way that I could narrow it down out of, I think, 8 George Loveridges, as I couldn't make head or tails of what the Medal cards were telling me, even though I have read and reread your section on how to read Medal Cards.

Lynne

[Piorun]

Lynne: your forensic thought-process isn't too bad to this point and, for one, I can see how you came down to those two cards. However, you mentioned ill-health possibly caused by gassing. Well, those two chaps were placed into Class Z Army Reserve on discharge. That meant that they were subject to immediate recall to the ranks up to about March or May of 1920. If your G/F was gassed, I doubt that would have been placed on Class Z (on the other hand, his smoking might have given him similar problems later in life). Meanwhile, however, the George Loveridge with DLI was discharged on the grounds that he was no longer fit for military service. At first glance, he may be a better bet. Was George his only given name? Don't be discouraged. Yours, Antony

[Lynne Storry]

Lynne: your forensic thought-process isn't too bad to this point and, for one, I can see how you came down to those two cards. However, you mentioned ill-health possibly caused by gassing. Well, those two chaps were placed into Class Z Army Reserve on discharge. That meant that they were subject to immediate recall to the ranks up to about March or May of 1920. If your G/F was gassed, I doubt that would have been placed on Class Z (on the other hand, his smoking might have given him similar problems later in life). Meanwhile, however, the George Loveridge with DLI was discharged on the grounds that he was no longer fit for military service. At first glance, he may be a better bet. Was George his only given name? Don't be discouraged. Yours, Antony

Hi Antony,

Thanks for that info. It is food for thought. Yes, George was his only given name. I don't know what to do now. Any thoughts.

Regards Lynne

[Ghost]

Lynn,

Have you narrowed down the search using the service/pension records? Even if his records are not available, using the home address and NOK on the records will narrow down the MICs.

Alan

[Piorun]

I think we can rule out the George Loveridge with DLI. His Service Record shows that he was from or living in Exminster when he enlisted. There are no other George Loveridge Service Records or WW1 Pension Records that would help. That brings us back to one of your two - despite the thought that he might have been gassed - or to some of the others, all of whom would likely have been Class Z, even tho' the cards don't note it. Either of the regiments you pulled out would not, I believe, have been an unreasonable choice for a man from Smethwick - neither would the Gloucesters. However, I think we could reasonably rule out the Hampshires and the Royal Marines. You mentioned checking with your father. Questions to ask are things like: does he remember any talk of artillery?(that would bring the first two MICs into the picture); what did your g/f do for a living?; does he know where your g/f was living in 1914/15/16?(that would allow you to search for local newspaper or other community records that might tell of his departure or return from the War); where would your g/f's home have been in 1918? (this is because his name may show up on an Absent Voters' List for the area and would include his Regiment); what age was your g/f?; better still, what was his birthdate?; when did he die?; where did he die?; where is he buried?; what church conducted the burial service?; does your family have any other documents at all on your g/f? Forgive me if you've been through all this before but these are questions that could, possibly, start a new trail of search. That's all I can offer for now. Will help any way I can. Antony

[Piorun]

Lynn,

Have you narrowed down the search using the service/pension records? Even if his records are not available, using the home address and NOK on the records will narrow down the MICs.

Alan

Sorry to jump in, Lynne.

Alan: Nothing on Service or Pensions Records. Antony

[rob elliott]

Lynne,

Anthony's route is a good one when you hit a dead end.

Not sure about where it might be but the absent voters list is a great document if you have nothing else.

Try West Bromwich main library 1st. It is the '1918 Absent Voters list', and basically those soldiers still serving around in mid 1918 were registered to vote for the late 1918 general election. It gives name, address, service number and usually the unit they were with.

Don't get too exited yet though as not all of the AVLs survived and even of those that did, the library staff are not always aware of them, so just check if they have the voting registers for the war period for Smethwick/West Brom first. It will probably mean a visit.

Another source could be birth certificates of any children born during the war as often it gets mentioned that the father was a soldier and the ones i have name his unit.

PS- just a quick edit,had a look, the 1901 census has George Loveridge Father and son [born 1886] in Handsworth district, so this may come under Birmingham

Rob

[hmsk212]

George Loveridge

As previously stated 5645 / 302844 DLI was living in Exminster at the time of his enlistment. He was also a POW which I am sure the family would remember if this was your grandfather

72328 RGA was living in Llanelly and did not serve overseas.

2218 / 831527 RFA was from Somerset

4540 1/5th Glos Regt was kia

201985 2/4th Ox & Bucks was kia

This just leaves the 2 men you have already mentioned plus one RFA, one Hampshire Regt and two ASC

Steve

[Lynne Storry]

I think we can rule out the George Loveridge with DLI. His Service Record shows that he was from or living in Exminster when he enlisted. There are no other George Loveridge Service Records or WW1 Pension Records that would help. That brings us back to one of your two - despite the thought that he might have been gassed - or to some of the others, all of whom would likely have been Class Z, even tho' the cards don't note it. Either of the regiments you pulled out would not, I believe, have been an unreasonable choice for a man from Smethwick - neither would the Gloucesters. However, I think we could reasonably rule out the Hampshires and the Royal Marines. You mentioned checking with your father. Questions to ask are things like: does he remember any talk of artillery?(that would bring the first two MICs into the picture); what did your g/f do for a living?; does he know where your g/f was living in 1914/15/16?(that would allow you to search for local newspaper or other community records that might tell of his departure or return from the War); where would your g/f's home have been in 1918? (this is because his name may show up on an Absent Voters' List for the area and would include his Regiment); what age was your g/f?; better still, what was his birthdate?; when did he die?; where did he die?; where is he buried?; what church conducted the burial service?; does your family have any other documents at all on your g/f? Forgive me if you've been through all this before but these are questions that could, possibly, start a new trail of search. That's all I can offer for now. Will help any way I can. Antony

OK Antony this is what I have just got together. Dad says that he cannot remember any artillery talk at all. His Father just didn't like talking about the War. When he would have been called up he was a Furnaceman. He lived at 18 Alfred Street, Handsworth from about 1912 through to about 1940. He was not on the Absent Voters List of 1918. He was born about 1886 and died in 1945 aged 59 years old. There is, however, something very odd about the births and Baptisms of his children as follows:

Sophia G Loveridge - Born: September 1912

Lily May Loveridge - Born: 29th April 1915 - Bap: 19th May 1915

Hilda Loveridge - Born 6th August 1916 - Bap: 24th March 1918

Harold Loveridge - Born 10th March 1918 - Bap: 24th March 1918

George Loveridge - Born: 31st August 1920 - Bap: 15th Sept. 1920

For a start I can't find, as yet any children born between Sophia and Lily. That is a 2-1/2 year gap. Did they come home on leave? Secondly, although Hilda was born in Aug. 1916 she wasn/t baptised until March 1918, when she had a joint baptism with her brother Harold. A 1-1/2 year gap here.

Could any of the dates above tie up with the info given on the Medal Cards.

Lynne

[Lynne Storry]

Lynne,

Anthony's route is a good one when you hit a dead end.

Not sure about where it might be but the absent voters list is a great document if you have nothing else.

Try West Bromwich main library 1st. It is the '1918 Absent Voters list', and basically those soldiers still serving around in mid 1918 were registered to vote for the late 1918 general election. It gives name, address, service number and usually the unit they were with.

Don't get too exited yet though as not all of the AVLs survived and even of those that did, the library staff are not always aware of them, so just check if they have the voting registers for the war period for Smethwick/West Brom first. It will probably mean a visit.

Another source could be birth certificates of any children born during the war as often it gets mentioned that the father was a soldier and the ones i have name his unit.

PS- just a quick edit,had a look, the 1901 census has George Loveridge Father and son [born 1886] in Handsworth district, so this may come under Birmingham

Rob

Hi Rob,

He was not on the 1918 Absent Voters List, so have to assume that he was out of the war by then.

Have checked the childrens' Birth Certificates, and they all state that he was a Furnaceman. Yes, I think you have my Grandfather born c1886 in Handsworth, and it does come under Birmingham, but also under Staffordshire sometimes. George Loveridge Father was a gypsy living in a caravan/tent with his son George (my grandfather) in the 1901 Census. Have a look at the dates of birth/baptism of his children in one of my recent answers, and see what you think.

Lynne

[Lynne Storry]

George Loveridge

As previously stated 5645 / 302844 DLI was living in Exminster at the time of his enlistment. He was also a POW which I am sure the family would remember if this was your grandfather

72328 RGA was living in Llanelly and did not serve overseas.

2218 / 831527 RFA was from Somerset

4540 1/5th Glos Regt was kia

201985 2/4th Ox & Bucks was kia

This just leaves the 2 men you have already mentioned plus one RFA, one Hampshire Regt and two ASC

Steve

Hi Steve,

My goodness I am so impressed, and very grateful for the above. I have come up with some more information on George Loveridge in answering questions for a couple of your colleagues, above, including possible dates of service. Would you be so kind as to have a look, and let me know if you can narrow it down any further.

Lynne

PS: My father, Alfred Loveridge, is sitting on the edge of his seat through all of this. He just can't believe how helpful you are being, and feels he may now finally get to the truth.

[Piorun]

Hello, Lynne: You're really getting a nose for this! Well done!!

May I summarise from the excellent research and suggestions from Steve and Rob: 1 - we can definitely eliminate the two KIA (4540 and 201985), the Somerset RFA (2218/831527), and the DLI (5645/302844); 2 - we can probably eliminate the G Loveridge in the RM (15008-S), and, I would suggest, also the Hampshires (13958 - I can see no possible logic in an enlistment there); 3 - I am going to suggest that we can eliminate the Ox & Bucks (10390/45279) and the South Wales (15281) - Ox & Bucks was a "county" regiment and I don't see any logical explanation for a furnaceman from Staffordshire enlisting there but, more important, both those soldiers were in France for two to five months before Hilda Loveridge would have been conceived. Now, I know that conception happened while soldiers were away but let's follow the more likely. That leaves us with 975/845724 George Loveridge RFA; DM2/179605 George Loveridge ASC; and R/359407 George Loveridge ASC.

The "DM2" was a 1920s addition designated a "Mechanical Transport Learner" - 179605 was also a Corporal. Lynne: does your Dad have any recollection of your g/f having "stripes"? That brings us to RFA 975 and, as your g/f was a furnaceman, he likely worked in an ironworks or foundry and could have come to the attention of RFA personnel who were overseeing armaments production. A furnaceman would certainly have the natural strength that would be useful in the RFA, especially in those days. However, 975 is a very early number and his MIC also seems to suggest (I'm wide open to correction and learning here) that he was a TF man or pre-war Regular. All that leads me - but, I realise that no-one else may be following - to George Loveridge R/359407 RASC. If that's the man, the date of Hilda's birth fits with post-15 overseas service. He would also had to have been home on leave (I hope ) around June 1917 in order to participate in the conception of Harold. At this point, however, the obvious logic fails as one wonders why Hilda wasn't baptised then. Perhaps the leave was too short. One assumes that he also came home in March of 18 - or else mother simply decided that with two un-baptised children, she should get on with it herself. The fact that all the children were baptised suggests a fairly strong religious faith. George's birth fits with G/F George's demobilisation at the end of the War. That's it for now. Church or other baptismal records, local papers, perhaps records from his old workplace, are the only other suggestions I have at the moment for sources that might list his Unit. Sorry. Yours, Antony

[Lynne Storry]

Hello, Lynne: You're really getting a nose for this! Well done!!

May I summarise from the excellent research and suggestions from Steve and Rob: 1 - we can definitely eliminate the two KIA (4540 and 201985), the Somerset RFA (2218/831527), and the DLI (5645/302844); 2 - we can probably eliminate the G Loveridge in the RM (15008-S), and, I would suggest, also the Hampshires (13958 - I can see no possible logic in an enlistment there); 3 - I am going to suggest that we can eliminate the Ox & Bucks (10390/45279) and the South Wales (15281) - Ox & Bucks was a "county" regiment and I don't see any logical explanation for a furnaceman from Staffordshire enlisting there but, more important, both those soldiers were in France for two to five months before Hilda Loveridge would have been conceived. Now, I know that conception happened while soldiers were away but let's follow the more likely. That leaves us with 975/845724 George Loveridge RFA; DM2/179605 George Loveridge ASC; and R/359407 George Loveridge ASC.

The "DM2" was a 1920s addition designated a "Mechanical Transport Learner" - 179605 was also a Corporal. Lynne: does your Dad have any recollection of your g/f having "stripes"? That brings us to RFA 975 and, as your g/f was a furnaceman, he likely worked in an ironworks or foundry and could have come to the attention of RFA personnel who were overseeing armaments production. A furnaceman would certainly have the natural strength that would be useful in the RFA, especially in those days. However, 975 is a very early number and his MIC also seems to suggest (I'm wide open to correction and learning here) that he was a TF man or pre-war Regular. All that leads me - but, I realise that no-one else may be following - to George Loveridge R/359407 RASC. If that's the man, the date of Hilda's birth fits with post-15 overseas service. He would also had to have been home on leave (I hope ) around June 1917 in order to participate in the conception of Harold. At this point, however, the obvious logic fails as one wonders why Hilda wasn't baptised then. Perhaps the leave was too short. One assumes that he also came home in March of 18 - or else mother simply decided that with two un-baptised children, she should get on with it herself. The fact that all the children were baptised suggests a fairly strong religious faith. George's birth fits with G/F George's demobilisation at the end of the War. That's it for now. Church or other baptismal records, local papers, perhaps records from his old workplace, are the only other suggestions I have at the moment for sources that might list his Unit. Sorry. Yours, Antony

Hi Antony,

Well done. Yes, I follow your logic all along. The three remaining children of George Loveridge were all born long after the war, so none of them have a recollection of their Father in uniform. George was apparently a bit of a lad with the ladies, but his wife apparently adored him, and all of the children I have named are his. Yes, they did have a fairly strong religious faith. My Father (born 1927) remembers going to Sunday School every week with his siblings. I guess it is now down to looking through local papers of the time, which I assume were the Birmingham Post and the Staffordshire Post. I wonder if Birmingham Library would have copies? Any idea? I will try to find out where he was working before and after the war and, hopefully, the company might still exist, along with records. Once again, thank you so much for your guidance, advice and knowledge. A big thank you to you all.

Lynne

[battiscombe]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned in the many posts ... but RFA 975/845724 will be a territorial number and the latter number would indicate a link with a South Midlands territorial artillery unit....Birmingham or Coventry area fall in that catchment (Staffordshire was N Midlands Div).. so that is a possible lead - I think those numbers were assigned to 48th and 61st Divisional ammunition Column men, both South Midland recruited - they were originally 1st S`Midland and 2nd S Midland divisions.. I believe

david

Hi Antony,

Well done. Yes, I follow your logic all along. The three remaining children of George Loveridge were all born long after the war, so none of them have a recollection of their Father in uniform. George was apparently a bit of a lad with the ladies, but his wife apparently adored him, and all of the children I have named are his. Yes, they did have a fairly strong religious faith. My Father (born 1927) remembers going to Sunday School every week with his siblings. I guess it is now down to looking through local papers of the time, which I assume were the Birmingham Post and the Staffordshire Post. I wonder if Birmingham Library would have copies? Any idea? I will try to find out where he was working before and after the war and, hopefully, the company might still exist, along with records. Once again, thank you so much for your guidance, advice and knowledge. A big thank you to you all.

Lynne