Jump to content

Remembered Today:

Loss at Sea - 22 May 1918


daggers
 Share

Recommended Posts

On another forum there is a plea for help in tracing the ship in which a father and son were lost on 22nd May, 1918, probably Merchant not Royal Navy as the father may have been a Marine Engineer. They have not been found in CWGC but are on a church memorial.

Has anyone access to the Dictionary of Ships Lost at Sea or similar title, where I think the losses are set out in date order? This might give a ship's name, or more than one, but either way a guide for more research.

D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Daggers,

Can you pass along what information is known? Where were they from? Has someone taken a stroll through the local newspaper archive around the date in question? Happy to try and help but need something to start with.

FYI, Hockings goes in alphabetical order by ship name. I'll poke around though and see what I can find with what has been provided thus far.

--Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi daggers,

Got two hits in Hockings...our first candidates:

CLAN MATHESON

Cayzer, Irvine & Co.; 1917; Sir J. Laing & Sons; 5,960 tons; 405x53-5x33-5; 401 nhp; triple-expansion engines. The British cargo ship Clan Matheson was sunk in a collision on May 22nd, 1918, in 40° 32' N., 49° 10' W., while on a voyage from New Orleans and New York to Nantes. She was carrying barley, oats and steel.

WAKIVA

United States Navy, armed yacht; 1907; Ramage & Ferguson; 853 tons; 239 x 30 -5 x 18; 230 nhp; triple-expansion engines; several small guns. The United States armed yacht Wakiva was lost by collision in the Bay of Biscay, on May 22nd, 1918.

I'd say the first is a better possibility than the second...don't you think?

Onward through the fog!

-Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Daniel

Great stuff - many thanks. I agree the first is the more likely and will offer it on the other forum, but not as the conclusive answer. I'll keep a lookout here...

D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On another forum there is a plea for help in tracing the ship in which a father and son were lost on 22nd May, 1918, probably Merchant not Royal Navy as the father may have been a Marine Engineer. They have not been found in CWGC but are on a church memorial.

Has anyone access to the Dictionary of Ships Lost at Sea or similar title, where I think the losses are set out in date order? This might give a ship's name, or more than one, but either way a guide for more research.

D

[/quote

Daggers July 27 2009.

There was another ship sunk on that date ,the "Red Rose", British, operated by R.Hughes & Co., Liverpool on a voyage Littlehampton - Havre with government stores when she was attacked and sunk by a u-boat. There were 11 casualties, could that be the one?

Maxonian.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi

On 22 May 1918, these two men with the same name were lost with the RED ROSE, a Liverpool vessel

Thomas PRITCHARD, Master 30 yrs

William PRITCHARD, Mate 60 yrs

The RED ROSE was a 423 ton aft positioned compound steamer completed in 1881 by J. Fullerton & Co., Paisley for R. Hughes & Co., Liverpool

In 1895 owned by Red Rose SS. Co., Ltd. (R. Hughes & Co., mgrs.)

1905 - s/o (Hughes & Hutson, mgrs.)

1912 owned by R. Hughes & Co., Liverpool

She went missing since sailing from Littlehampton, 21 May 1918, for Havre with government stores, a crew of nine and two gunners

The vessel was too small to be in the DODAS. I have all the crew names if you need them too.

Cheers Ron

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the Red Rose information, especially with its Liverpool port of registration. The name we are hunting is Asquith [no link with the politician stated], one being a marine engineer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the Red Rose information, especially with its Liverpool port of registration. The name we are hunting is Asquith [no link with the politician stated], one being a marine engineer.

Sorry, no MM or RN person called Asquith was lost during WWI, in my files anyway, all based on "The Cross of Sacrifice". Although there was a phillip Asquith lost with Queen Mary, but that was in 1916?

Ron

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They should be listed in the G.R.O Register for Civilian Deaths at Sea (1918). The entry will give the name of their ship.

The register may be accessed through FreeBMD. I don't have a subscription but there will be folk on here who do.

Andy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reporting a find in a newspaper, from the other forum:

'ASQUITH - "In ever loving memory of my dear husband and son. F and F Asquith, 1st and 2nd Engineers of the SS "Cliffburn", who were lost at sea May 22nd 1918. (Two of the many brave men who died to save For Englands cause" God will remember- From his loving wife and Children, Mrs Asquith, Hope Cottage, Melling, Liverpool.

There needs to be some more research done into this as if they died as a result of war operations they should be included on the CWWG. Also why is their no registration of their deaths? '

It seems that Cliffburn was in collision with another vessel and so may [unfortunately] her victims may not qualify for CWGC recognition. I shall relaunch this on Possible Non-comms.

D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all,

There seems to be something about this incident in Lloyd's Law Reports:

OWNERS OF STEAMSHIP "CLIFFBURN" v. OWNERS OF STEAMSHIP "NORTHUMBERLAND." COLLISION IN FOG. (1920)

http://ilaw.prod.informaprofessional.com/i...20Law%20Reports

Seems there is a fee to get the info from this site. Will see if I can get some specifics.

Miramar has quite a few Northumberlands...would be helpful if we knew more about her. No Cliffburn listed in there...hmm.

You may also want to send an email to Southampton Libraries, as they may have a wreck report on the Cliffburn:

http://www.plimsoll.org/WrecksAndAccidents...rts/default.asp

-Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Daniel

Thanks for that, almost simultaneous with a posting on the other forum. A newscutting was found with that ship's name, in an 'In Memoriam' column. There was a collision with Northumberland as you say. Now for CWGC - see my new post in 'Non-comms'.

Many thanks for your help and also to other contributors.

D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Daniel

Thanks for that, almost simultaneous with a posting on the other forum. A newscutting was found with that ship's name, in an 'In Memoriam' column. There was a collision with Northumberland as you say. Now for CWGC - see my new post in 'Non-comms'.

Many thanks for your help and also to other contributors.

D

Hi Daggers,

I was able to coax a little more info out of Google:

The collision took place in the Irish Channel on May 22, 1918, when the Cliffburn was sunk and all of her crew were drowned. The Northumberland also sustained some damage. The Northumberland is a steel screw steamship of 12160 tons gross tons gross and 7861 tons net, 530 ft. long, and she was on a voyage from New York to Liverpool in convoy, carrying troops and Laden "with a cargo of general goods", was in Liverpool Bay near the Bar light-vessel. The wind was Northerly, light, the weather hazy, and the tide about high water slack. The Talthybius, following the vessel ahead, heading about S. 31 deg. E., was making about 13 knots; the regulation lights, including a stern light, were duly exhibited and burning brightly; and a good look-out was being kept.

That's all for now...

-Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

-Daniel

That is great stuff, which I shall pass on to the right quarter. A great-grandson of one of the father-and-son ship's engineers has been tracked down and is visiting the church next week. All will be delighted to have your information.

Many thanks for your interest. I am worried that I did not find the Google reference, but put it down to your superior skill!

D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi

Cannot find a ship called Cliffburn?

Ron]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ron,

Cliffburn was apparently of 238 grt, so too small for Starke-Schell. Per Lloyd's War Losses "In collision with NORTHUMBERLAND off the Maidens, at 12:34pm on May 22, 1918. Sailed May 21, 1918, Mayport - Buncrana, Co. Donegal, coal"

Best wishes,

Michael

Link to comment
Share on other sites

-Daniel

That is great stuff, which I shall pass on to the right quarter. A great-grandson of one of the father-and-son ship's engineers has been tracked down and is visiting the church next week. All will be delighted to have your information.

Many thanks for your interest. I am worried that I did not find the Google reference, but put it down to your superior skill!

D

Hi Daggers,

The exerpt is from Lloyd's List Law Reports, (page 386), which you can find here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=5LczAAAAI...=gbs_navlinks_s

There's no preview via the link, but there are ways to sneak a peek here and there. :)

Now, when they say all hands were lost, I wonder how many people we are talking about. If someone can track down the full story I for one would love to hear it.

Ron,

Cliffburn was apparently of 238 grt, so too small for Starke-Schell. Per Lloyd's War Losses "In collision with NORTHUMBERLAND off the Maidens, at 12:34pm on May 22, 1918. Sailed May 21, 1918, Mayport - Buncrana, Co. Donegal, coal"

Best wishes,

Michael

Dang, 238 GRT versus 12,160 GRT. She never had a chance, did she?

Northumberland was a pretty solid ship. She went on to have quite a long career after this incident. See:

http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/ship/show/178515

-Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Michael

When you wrote 'Mayport' could you have meant 'Maryport'? Coal was shipped out of Cumberland for many years.

I see 'The Maidens' was a group of rocks near Larne, Co. Antrim. I have put the other hounds on to find out about NI death registration, which could account for the failure [so far] to find anything for the Asquiths in England.

Cliffburn sounds like a small coasting collier.

D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all,

Here's a picture of Northumberland:

>Snip< Wrong picture deleted!!

Erm, you may want to have a look at this:

 

A Forum pal may have had a relative on board the Northumberland when the incident occurred! PM, anyone? :)

-Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Michael

Thanks for that, it does not show up on Miramar or the TIMES either; had me baffled;)

Cheers Ron

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Daggers, all...

Columbia University's Law Library appears to have a copy of the Lloyd's List Law Reports; the library is not too far from me. I will call them and see if I can get a copy of the pertinent pages.

Will report back if I make headway.

-Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately the picture of the Northumberland cannot be correct as the vessel is far too modern

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...