Reverend Humphrey Gordon Barclay

[Hambo]

The Rev Barclay survived the war and received the MC in 1918 but most probably in late 1917 as it was gazetted in January 1918 with the citation appearing in April 1918. The citation would indicate that he was in action with a front line unit as it was for care and comfort of the wounded under fire.

What I cannot find anywhere is which unit he was attached to or if indeed he was attached to a battalion. He was appointed as a Chaplain 4th Class in December 1914 and went to France right away so must have served there or elsewhere for the duration.

Would anyone know where to look for his battalion?

Thanks John

[The Inspector]

Hi John

He has two MIC's on Ancestry, if another pal can post them you may get more info from them

Regards Barry

PS. One card is for a M in D on 4.1.17 LG Page 251, Army Chaplain 3rd Class. the other lists his medal entitlement.

[Carmania]

John

Unforunately his obituary in The Times does not mention with which regiment he served but he was later appointed Chaplain to both King George VI and the present Queen and was made CVO in 1946.

Aled

[Hambo]

Thanks for the responses, much appreciated

Regards John

[mattgibbs]

Barclay, Humphrey Gordon

Trinity Hall Cambridge Theol.Coll.

Deacon 1905

Priest 1906 London.

Assistant Chaplain Mission for Seamen Port of London 1905-09.

Chaplain Mission for Seamen for Tees 1909-14.

Temporary Chaplain to the Forces 1914-19.

Military Cross 1917.

Rector of Carleton Forehoe with Crownthorpe and Hon. Chaplain to Bishop of Norfolk 1919-21.

Domestic Chaplain to the King 1940-46.

Chaplain to the King 1946 -

Medal Index card states theatre of war France, entered 1/12/1914. Issued 1915 Star, War and Victory medal plus MID Emblem. Didn't apply for his medals till 1928! Only states corps as RAChD. His brief write up for the MC in the LG does not state which unit he was attached to either, although I note that on the previous page his appears to come under a set of listings headed Australian Imperial Force. Is it possible he was attached to or lent out to the AIF..?

[Hambo]

Matt

Many thanks it's a useful lead to pursue

Thanks for the additional info

Best regards John

[Audax]

Attached to 1st Calvary Division in 1916.

[Hambo]

Thanks do you know the source so I can follow it up?

Regards John

[Humphrey Barclay]

This is an ancient thread, but to let you know I am Humphrey Gordon Barclay's great grandson and am also researching him on Ancestry.

Here he is. He's the tall chap in the archway.

 

[Humphrey Barclay]

In 1901 he joined the Kings Own Norfolk Imperial Yeomanry, which was raised and commanded by his father H.A.Barclay. But he can't have spent much time with it as he was at Trinity Hall Cambridge in 1900 and at some point was a Lichfield Theological College before becoming a priest. 

Extract from Cambridge Alumni: Adm. at TRINITY HALL, 1900. S. and h. of Henry Albert (1877), Esq., of Underhills, Blechingley, Surrey, and of The Grange, Cromer, Norfolk. [B. May 23, 1882.] School, Eton. Matric. Michs. 1900. Ord. deacon, 1905; priest (London) 1906; Chaplain to the Mission to Seamen, 1905-14; to the Forces, 1914-19. M.C., 1917; mentioned in despatches. R. of Carleton Forehoe with Crownthorpe, Norfolk, 1919-21. Hon. Chaplain to the Bishop of Norwich, 1919-21. R. of South Repps, 1921-6. R. of Tittleshall with Godwick and Wellingham, 1926-39-. Married and had issue. (Burke, L.G., 1937; Crockford, 1939.)

 

[Humphrey Barclay]

In 1901 he joined the Kings Own Norfolk Imperial Yeomanry, which was raised and commanded by his father H.A.Barclay. But he can't have spent much time with it as he was at Trinity Hall Cambridge in 1900

Various yeomanry units were incorporated in the 1st Mounted (Cavalry) division, so it would have been very natural for HGB to have stayed with them - Audax?


 

[PRC]

4 hours ago, Humphrey Barclay said:

Here he is. He's the tall chap in the archway.
 

 

 

Great picture and the doorway reminds me of a church in Norfolk - just none of the ones he was the clergy at so I'm racking my brains

http://www.norfolkchurches.co.uk/norfolkindex.htm

 

BTW I take it you are aware that one of the families photo albums is held at Cromer Museum.

https://norfolk.spydus.co.uk/cgi-bin/spydus.exe/FULL/PICNOR/BIBENQ/44632976/47433177,1

And another collection that may include pictures of them  -

https://norfolk.spydus.co.uk/cgi-bin/spydus.exe/FULL/PICNOR/BIBENQ/44632976/47432835,6

 

I could not see a picture of father or son in the Picture Norfolk archive, although there is one for the crowd gathered outside the church at Cromer for the wedding of Humphrey in 1906.

https://norfolk.spydus.co.uk/cgi-bin/spydus.exe/FULL/PICNOR/BIBENQ/44632976/47433002,5

 

3 hours ago, Humphrey Barclay said:

In 1901 he joined the Kings Own Norfolk Imperial Yeomanry, which was raised and commanded by his father H.A.Barclay. But he can't have spent much time with it as he was at Trinity Hall Cambridge in 1900

 

Sadly far too many saw membership of the Yeomanry officer corps as more of a social club than a military institution. Judging from their subsequent Great War obituaries the ability to ride to hounds or hold your own in point to point races against regular army officers, something which seemed to be a mainstay of pre-war racecourse meetings, was what passed for military training.

 

It didn't hurt that the King took a keen interest in the Regiment - Edward was a key player in the creation of the Norfolk Imperial Yeomanry (KIngs Own), in 1901, and George had them mount the Guard of Honour at a number or Royal occasions in the County, giving them equal status with Regular Army units. Following the Territorial Force reforms of 1908 the unit became known as Norfolk Yeomanry (King's Own Royal Regiment) (Dragoons) - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_Yeomanry

 

By the time of the 1911 Census of England & Wales father Henry Albert was giving his occupation as Yeomany Colonel and Aide-de-Camp to the King.

 

I can't see any mention of Humphrey so far in the wartime press, but the titles I have access to tend to be more Norwich centric - Eastern Daily Press, Eastern Evening News, Norwich Mercury and Norfolk Chronicle - although news story relating to "names" in the Norfolk gentry tend to get covered in them regardless of where the family lived.

 

Although you can probably find the War Diary for the 1st Cavalry Division at Ancestry, (and the Cavalry regiments that made it up - see https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/1st-cavalry-division/ these have to be downloaded page by page. However the National Archive is currently allowing a limited number of free downloads during Covid lockdown - you just have to register for an account and you can download the individual brigades war diaries or individual regiments in much bigger chunks than one page at a time.

 

Going back to the Norfolk Yeomany, pre-war their regimental headquarters was at the Cavalry Barracks in Norwich, which they shared with whichever Regular Army unit was stationed there at the time. It was a natural stepping stone for those with a bit more military zeal to transfer over and take a Regular Army commission. As these units were also best placed to recruit local lads keen on a life in the cavalry, by the time they were rotated out they could take on a distinctly Norfolk feel. In the case of the 16th Lancers who left at the start of 1914 this would be reflected in the casualties in the retreat from Mons. And on the outbreak of war 16th Lancers were in the 3rd Brigade of the 1st Cavalry Division, (although they would move to the 2nd Cavalry Division in September 1914).

 

As a Regular Army Division there were only one Yeomanry Regiment that served for more than a few months with it, so I don't think that was a factor.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[Humphrey Barclay]

The photo is at Northrepps Cottage in 1950 - its a shooting party. The Gurneys are still at Northrepps Hall nearby.

I feel sure that HGB was pressured to join the Yeomanry by his father. He was publicly disinherited on announcing his intention to enter the Church. 

many thanks for the tips - I will dig. h

[Humphrey Barclay]

The door is at Northrepps Cottage in North Norfolk. It's a Gurney shooting party.

HGB was very likely pressured to join the Yeomanry. When he soon after decided to enter the Church - he went to Lichfield Theological College, his father disinherited him.

Many thanks for the tips - I will dig.

Meanwhile, I have the original painting for the Illustrated London News of the inspection of the Yeomanry in 1906 by Edward VII and King Haakon of Norway, who was honorary Colonel, also a signed "parade state", which I dont have to hand at this point, but there is also a little leaflet that I found on Canadian ebay of all places.

[PRC]

31 minutes ago, Humphrey Barclay said:

The photo is at Northrepps Cottage in 1950 - its a shooting party.

 

Ah - is that the beautiful Edwardian Shooting Lodge on the 90^o bend in the road. Often glimpsed on the way down the hill and my "navigator" keeps wanting me to drive in and take a better look as it's much more her kind of history than churches and war memorials

 

35 minutes ago, Humphrey Barclay said:

He was publicly disinherited on announcing his intention to enter the Church. 

 

I was about to say might explain the lack of appearance in the wartime press - they were generally keen not to upset the local great & good. But then I remembered the crowds at Cromer church in 1906 for his wedding, so after he had joined the church, and more likely after he was ordained given the caption on the Picture Norfolk site. Seems odd he was disinherited, the custom for generations had been to get a son in the Church before a son in the army and you have only to see how intertwined the family of clerics were with the gentry - in many ways they were an essential. Certainly in Norfolk a significant number of CofE priest were rich landowners and landlords in their own right.

 

So given the crowd I would say that even if he fell out with his father it wasn't in a way that made him persona non gratia with Norfolk society.

 

Presumably his wartime exploits was enough to reconcile him with his father - it would seem unlikely he would have taken the parish of Southrepps, (1921-26) if the two were on non-speaking terms.

 

Good luck with the digging,

Peter

 

[rob carman]

On ‎08‎/‎05‎/‎2020 at 05:18, Humphrey Barclay said:

In 1901 he joined the Kings Own Norfolk Imperial Yeomanry, which was raised and commanded by his father H.A.Barclay.

 

I did not note where I found this original image but it is one of several I have of related photographs filed inside plastic envelopes.  Some of the series appear in: Harvey JR.  1908.  Records of the Norfolk Yeomanry Cavalry to which is added the fencible and volunteer cavalry of the same county from 1780 to 1908. Together with some account of the 43rd and 44th Squadrons of Imperial Yeomanry…South African War, 1900. Jarrolds, Norwich. 415 pp.  (available online and free at http://books.google.com/books?id=4_8uAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA408&dq=harvey+fencible&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Y5ZRVIKCO8OgyATJt4C4AQ&ved=0CB8QuwUwAA#v=onepage&q=harvey%20fencible&f=false

and some in  Smith RJ, RG Harris, RJ Marrion.  1991.  The Uniforms of the British Yeomanry Force 1794-1914.  12.  The Yeomanry Cavalry of Norfolk.  Picton Publishing Ltd, Chippenham, Wilts.  33 pp.  ISBN 0 9515714 3 5.  For this particular image the caption in Smith et al adds no information beyond that shown here. 

 

I would be very interested in your family lore included any mention of JR "Bob" Harvey, a contemporary of father and both sons in the Yeomanry, but closer in age to the Colonel.

 

[rob carman]

Other banking families of Norfolk have had their own spiritual versus martial conflicts.  The Gurneys were historically very important Quakers.  Hudson Gurney, a younger family member who had become a partner in Gurney's Bank in 1800, was disowned by the Norwich Meeting of Friends in 1804, for subscribing towards the raising of a volunteer force to defend the country against the French.  This was regarded as contrary to the principle of the Friends.

 

Rob.

[Humphrey Barclay]

Very much appreciate the photograph, and any more including Barclays. I cant find a working link to download/view the Harvey book, unfortunately.

The Barclays were also Quakers until close to this time. HAB was CoE - a hard man, so his disapproval of HGB entering holy orders resulted in HGB's son, HMBarclay taking over the family estate and moving into Hanworth Hall at a relatively young age, although HAB continued to live there. HGB settled nearby as vicar of Southrepps. He "married" a very high proportion of the Norfolk gentry.

JF Barclay is Joseph Francis Barclay who eventually settled at Aylsham Old Hall and died in at 84 in 1968. I do not remember him, but remember his sister, my great great aunt "Una" (Eugenia), who was a great horsewoman and died, still active, in 1973.

HGB was well over 6ft, which must have been a disadvantage in the trenches.

I have here a good photo of HAB with NCOs. Curious to know where - could even be Sandringham.



 

[Humphrey Barclay]

In the picture of HAB with sons, the medals are the Order of St Olaf of Norway (King Haakon was honorary colonel) and I think probably the MVO or CVO

[Humphrey Barclay]

20 hours ago, rob carman said:

 

I did not note where I found this original image but it is one of several I have of related photographs filed inside plastic envelopes.  Some of the series appear in: Harvey JR.  1908.  Records of the Norfolk Yeomanry Cavalry to which is added the fencible and volunteer cavalry of the same county from 1780 to 1908. Together with some account of the 43rd and 44th Squadrons of Imperial Yeomanry…South African War, 1900. Jarrolds, Norwich. 415 pp.  (available online and free at http://books.google.com/books?id=4_8uAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA408&dq=harvey+fencible&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Y5ZRVIKCO8OgyATJt4C4AQ&ved=0CB8QuwUwAA#v=onepage&q=harvey%20fencible&f=false

and some in  Smith RJ, RG Harris, RJ Marrion.  1991.  The Uniforms of the British Yeomanry Force 1794-1914.  12.  The Yeomanry Cavalry of Norfolk.  Picton Publishing Ltd, Chippenham, Wilts.  33 pp.  ISBN 0 9515714 3 5.  For this particular image the caption in Smith et al adds no information beyond that shown here. 

 

I would be very interested in your family lore included any mention of JR "Bob" Harvey, a contemporary of father and both sons in the Yeomanry, but closer in age to the Colonel.

 

As it turns out, my father has this photo in a frame somewhere. But he told me a good bit of "circumstantial colour". In the photo, HGB is standing at an angle to the camera. This is because he arrived late for the photographer and forgot his sword. HAB and JFB have theirs clearly visible, but HGB has had to fudge it. HAB was incandescent with rage, apparently.

I have located an original copy of the Harvey book, which is coming my way as soon as the PO can manage.

[Humphrey Barclay]

I found this 1907 Sergeants Mess photo with all the names, if that is of interest

[rob carman]

It certainly is of interest.  Thank you.  Rob.

[Humphrey Barclay]

The Harvey book has arrived here if you need anything that isn't online. H

[PRC]

Gentlemen,

 

Slight digression if you will allow me. Do you think the seniro NCO tthe the left of Colonel Barclay in this picture

 

On 09/05/2020 at 16:58, Humphrey Barclay said:

I have here a good photo of HAB with NCOs. Curious to know where - could even be Sandringham.

 

Is this man?

 

A North Walsham Hero - RSM Thomas Elliott, Norfolk Yeomanry Killed in Action 1915 by Moominpappa06, on Flickr

 

Is so might help a little bit with dating the picture, depending on the rank worn in the picture both by Thomas Elliott and the man to his left.

 

Thomas Elliott was actually 5th (Princess Charlotte of Wales's) Dragoon Guards, but attached Norfolk Yeomanry. Unfortunately lots of inconsistancies in trying to piece together the story of his life and death.

 

I believe his daughter Margurite Lilian was born on the 17th June 1908 at Blomfontein, South Africa where he was serving with 5DG.

By the time the 1911 Norfolk Register was being prepared in late 1910 I believe he was living at Norwich Road, North Walsham, and had been there long enough to qualify for a Parliamentary vote.

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales, (taken 2nd April 1911), he, his wife and two children were recorded at Norwich Road, North Walsham. He gave his occupation as Squadron Sergeant Major Instructor of Yeomanry.

At some point between then and the Yeomanry's first, unsuccessful, attempt to land at Anzac Cove on the 8th October 1915, he had been promoted Acting Regimental Sergeant Major.

 

The newspaper article has him shot by a sniper in Gallipoil.

CWGC has him as died with the 5th DG on the 6th December 1915 and remembered on the Helles War Memorial.

SDGW has him KiA 6th December 1915 serving with 5th DG in France & Flanders.

His 5DG Service Medal Rolls shows him as attached "P.A. Norfolk Yeomanry", KiA 6th December 1915.

Unit war diary specifically names him as KiA on the 13th December 1915, while the unit also has one wounded - Thomas was shot while attending to a wounded corporal.

 

Your thoughts on the likeness would be much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

[rob carman]

Peter,

 

I might be him, but I am not confident of it.  I can tell you I am glad you brought this up.  RSM Elliott has confused me for some time.  You have joined up some dots.  I have a couple of notes:

 

"Hear that the Norfolk [Yeomanry] Regimental Sergeant Major was killed in one of our trenches last night." Maj Edward Cadogan, Suffolk Yeomanry, Monday 6 December 1915.  According to Cadogan, the sergeant’s body was recovered and carried down into Bedford Gully on 7 December. 

 

Petre (1924) says that two men working by a water course to restore drainage in the trenches were casualties. One man was badly wounded. The other was killed.  The dead man weighed a considerable amount but that his body was nonetheless retrieved with great courage by a peacetime friend, a policeman. 

 

Bastin (1986) says only, “On the 11^th December Lieut J. Harbord was wounded in the neck by a sniper’s bullet and was lucky to escape with his life: two days later RSM Elliot was killed by an enemy sniper.” 

 

Rob.