Windmills, east of Sedd-el-Bahr village

[oak]

Pals,

On 26 February 1915 a Royal Navy demolition party went ashore at Sedd-el-Bahr, Gallipoli. The party was protected by a group of Royal Marines from the battleship Irresistible. The marines set up a command post near windmills east of Sedd-el-Bahr village.

I'd be very grateful if any Pal could give me information on (and if possible the exact location of) the windmills, please.

Regards,

Philip

[michaeldr]

Philip,

I wonder if the ref to Windmills in this case is not, perhaps, a mistake?

Do you have further details which you can share with us?

There certainly were windmills, but on the other side of the Dards., at Kum Kale, however, I am not sure about there being any at Helles

There were, what are referred to as 'Water Towers', which seem to have been the few remaining pillars of a Roman Aqueduct

See the att. map

I wonder if these were not mistaken for windmills on 25th Feb. 1915.

with very best regards

Michael

PS:

credit for the map should go to Col M A Nolan, and his article 'Gallipoli - the Maps - Part 4' as printed in the journal of The Gallipoli Association (The Gallipolian) No.74, Spring 1994

Edited 16 July , 2009 by michaeldr

[Krithia]

Another alternative may be the windmills that were sited to the east of Krithia village (I think there were three). As the Marines were spiking the guns in and around the Castle and Fort No.1, I doubt they got as far as Krithia.

I think the report may be confused with the landing at Kum Kale on 26th Feb 1915. It was here a party of marines and sailors led by Lt-Cdr Eric Robinson, ship's officer, HMS "Vengeance", which went ashore in the afternoon under the cover of "Irresistible" and "Vengeance" and supporting cruisers. Under heavy fire, Robinson held back his own men, and went on to destroy two guns in the vicinity and another one at Orkanieh, being awarded the VC.

Regasrds, K

[oak]

Thanks Michael and Krithia,

I'll have to recheck my source (Naval Operations by Julian Corbet). While I don't have it to hand as I write this, I believe that the account did say that the windmills were east of Sedd-el-Bahr village. I was aware of the windmills at Kum Kale.

Michael, that's a fantastic map. I hadn't seen it before. Could I further impose on your kindness by asking if you would mind posting the area to the west of Sedd-el-Bahr as well, please?

Regards,

Philip

[The Plummed Goose]

Philip,

In the official history by Aspinal, opposite p. 223 there is a map which shows the windmills.

cheers

eric

[The Plummed Goose]

Philip,

Most of the villages had windmills in 1915 but they were often used as range finders.

In the village of karainebeyli (east of the Anafartalar villages) there are still today the ruins of two windmills.

eric

PS : Philip I am gonna reply to your mail soon, bear with me.

[The Plummed Goose]

picture of one of the 2 windmills

[michaeldr]

In the official history by Aspinal, opposite p. 223 there is a map which shows the windmills.

Well done, Eric!

Philip,

I cannot give you the western part of the above map, as this is all of it which appears in the article

However, Col Nolan also shows another couple of similar maps - the whole of his 4th article is devoted to the 1:20000 Krithia (Provisional) and Krithia Extension (Provisional) Maps

One copy is of better quality than the other

I hope that these are of some help

regards

Michael

[oak]

Well done Eric!

That is fantastic information. Only a local (Belgian) could come up with such a treasure trove.

Fingers crossed, I'm hoping to get out to you next year with an Irish friend and a GWF Pal.

Regards,

Philip

[oak]

Michael,

You got in as was composing my reply to Eric. (Just in case you thought I'd ignored your post and in case you and Eric thought I'd copied your "Well done Eric!.)

After I'd put up my last post to you, I thought to myself "There's no way Michael would just cut a map. If the map he posted doesn't show west of Sedd-el-Bahr, then neither does the original."

Many thanks for your latest maps. Unless I'm mistaken, the better quality map appears on the front cover of the hardback edition of "Grasping Gallipoli." It's the only illustration/photo on the cover that isn't captioned. I asked the publishers where the map came from but they didn't reply. Now you've solved the mystery.

Many thanks,

Philip

[michaeldr]

Philip,

Yes, it's interesting isn't it, how reluctant most (all?) publishers are to enter into correspondence with their readers. One is tempted to think that, once they have got the price of the book out of you, they are no longer concerned with Joe Public

I suspect that you are correct in what you say about the cover illustration. Chasseaud and Doyle mention in their Acknowledgements "the excellent pioneering articles by Col Mike Nolan RE (rtd) on Gallipoli mapping which appeared in The Gallipolian in 1993-5 and have been extremely useful." Using as their cover one of the same maps as he used would be a further salute.

best regards

Michael

[Krithia]

Philip,

In the official history by Aspinal, opposite p. 223 there is a map which shows the windmills.

cheers

eric

Well done, Eric, this is something I didn't know and checked many maps last night to try and find these windmills, of course I missed the most obvious one. Thanks.

[oak]

As you say, Michael, the mention of Col Mike Nolan RE (retd) in the acknowledgements appears to finalise the matter.

And -- again -- Well done Eric

Regards,

Philip

[Orion]

Hi Philip,

You probably know/have this info regarding the 1/2 company of RDF that landed at the Camber, but just in case...

Excellent map work and photos - as usual gentlemen!

Drop me an email sometime soon Philip

Cheers,

Brian

A party that landed at the Camber by the old

fort got up to the village of Sedd-ul-Bahr as

far as the windmills, and these men, heroes all,

gave those of us who were stationed in the tops

an example of cool, straightforward fighting.

Here is the context for the above passage and the reference for it:

The landing at De Tott's was well carried out

none better ; but that the attack on Sedd-ul-Bahr

had been a failure was obvious from where the

Cornwallis lay. It was not until we arrived at

THE GREAT LANDING 83

V Beach about midday that we realized how

matters stood.

The River Clyde, afterwards known as " the

Dun Cow," by reason of her khaki colour, had

gone ashore as arranged with men of the Dublin

Fusiliers, Hampshires, and Munsters, Territorial

units of the R.A.M.C., and men belonging to the

armoured car section R.N.D. on board, towing

a steam hopper and alongside lighters which

were to form a bridge to the shore from the large

ports cut in the collier's sides. When the River

Clyde struck, the hopper went on under her own

steam and momentum, and towed the lighters

farther in so as to form the arranged pontoon for

the troops to cross. Another body of men in

boats were to land from them, and rush the

entanglements and trenches, whilst another party

on the right took the village of Sedd-ul-Bahr

and the fort.

The whole attack was preceded by a heavy

bombardment of the Turkish position and trenches

by the ships covering Sedd-ul-Bahr, after which

the preliminaries of the arranged landing pro-

gramme were carried into effect.

The Turks allowed the specially cut ports to be

opened, and almost as the prepared gangways

84 THE IMMOETAL GAMBLE

connected at the bases with the lighters were

in position on both sides of the River Clyde, the

soldiers, in their eagerness to get at the Turks,

made a rush ashore. Before many got as far as

the lighters (and the few who made the attempt

were shot down), almost, indeed, as the men set

foot on the gangways, the Turks opened fire with

rifles and maxims and pom-poms, and swept

our men away wholesale. In heaps our gallants

fell on the decks of the lighters, living, dead, and

wounded. Some were suffocated and crushed to

death by the sheer weight of bodies.

The men in the boats fared no better they

were shot to pieces. Many got into the water,

and were drowned by their encumbering accoutre-

ments; others swam to the River Clyde or remained

in the boats or in the water behind the boats, hold-

ing on for hours until they were shot. A certain

number from the boats reached the beach, and

took cover under a bank which afforded a meagre

shelter, and there dug themselves in.

A party that landed at the Camber by the old

fort got up to the village of Sedd-ul-Bahr as

far as the windmills, and these men, heroes all,

gave those of us who were stationed in the tops

an example of cool, straightforward fighting.

THE GREAT LANDING 85

No trench work was there it was deer-stalking,

with the hunter and the hunted able to deal

death. From second to second the life of every

soul in that little company depended on quickness

of aim, readiness of resource, and skill in taking

cover.

Advancing in a series of crawls and short

runs, with backs bent double, across an open

space between the cliff and a row of houses, our

men sheltered as best they could, crouching low

against the foundations of anything standing.

Opposite them the Turks held a loop-holed

wall.

Sometimes one side and sometimes the other

bobbed up, and a shot was fired often not more

than ten yards separated the adversaries. And

all the while what impressed us breathless on-

lookers was the adroitness with which our men

turned every projecting angle of a house, every

fallen stone, every insignificant rise in the road,

to account. We who had seen no other land

fighting felt that these men of the 29th Division

had no superiors among the fighting men of the

world. We were not mistaken. Their immortal

deeds are engraved for ever on the cliffs they

scaled.

86 THE IMMORTAL GAMBLE

The brave little company was driven back, out-

numbered; many were cut off, and all the wounded,

and on these was wreaked vengeance German-

fashion, not Turkish, for the Turks are clean

fighters as a rule. This story we had from men

who saw the dead later, and swore to the hideous

maltreatment.

No amount of shell fire was able to stop the

hellish fire of maxims and rifles from the trenches

the Turks were dug in in regular caves, and the

ships were too far out to see properly.

Reference:

http://www.archive.org/details/immortalgamblepa00stewrich

pages 82-86

THE IMMORTAL GAMBLE

AND THE PART PLAYED IN IT BY

H.M.S. "CORNWALLIS"

BY

A. T. STEWART

ACTING COMMANDER, R.N.

AND

THE REV. C. J. E. PESHALL, B.A.

CHAPLAIN, R.N.

A. & C. BLACK, LTD.

4, 5 & 6 SOHO SQUARE, LONDON, W.G.

1917

[michaeldr]

From Philip's first post above - The marines set up a command post near windmills

This is hardly even a case of dotting 'I's and crossing 'T's, but,

does anyone know (or care) what sort of windmills these were. I had assumed that they would be for grinding corn, however, having just received my copy of Kannengiesser's book, I see that he has a photograph of the windmills at Turschunkoi and describes them as Oil Mills.

I suppose that it is obvious really, in an area with such a vast number of olive trees.

regards

Michael

[bierlijn]

Here's a good place to ask about a photo taken on the peninsula by my grandfather, of 'The Watertowers'. I'm sure he wasn't too chuffed with the results of this photo! What were these and where were they?

Hugh

[michaeldr]

Hugh,

See post #2 and the map there

On the map the water towers are above the word 'MORTO'

and are believed to have been part of a Roman aquaduct

regards

Michael

[Dogan Sahin]

I have today asked about the said 2 windmills to a couple of locals.

They suggested there were windmilss( grain) but that since most of the windmills were used as targets, those two were also demolished.. But, this is only hearsay..

regards

[michaeldr]

Dogan,

Thanks for checking up on the point as to which sort of mills they were; oil or grain

Two things I should clarify:

Kannengiesser says that some of the photographs in his book are Turkish (from an album presented to Liman by the 16th Division) but unfortunately he does not say which ones.

Secondly, of course it does not follow that because the windmills at Turschunkoi were for oil, then those at Sedd el Bahr were necessarily also for oil; it is possible that they had different purpose, eg. grinding grain

regards

Michael