8th army and Worysch detachment

[wiking85]

In Herman Cron's book in the German army, in 1914 the 8th army, at the start of the war is listed with 5 corps+assorted divisions and brigades. What happened to these troops as the year went on? During the Masurian lakes the 8th only had 6 corps, two of which came from the western front. Later on, this discrepancy remains. Any clues? What about the Worysch detachment? What that formed from 8th Army troops?

[SMSKaiser]

The 8th Army consisted of only 4 Corps, 1 division and some smaller units, as the 'Landwehr' Corps Col.-Gen. von Woyrsch was associated with Gen. Dankl's Austrian I. Army...The 2 Corps from the West arrived for the battle of the Masurian lakes, thus making 6 Corps (not counting sole divisions and brigades).

I think that Cron has added that Corps in the first, but not on the second description (this would at least fit )

What do you mean with 'the discrepancy remains'? the 8th gave up a lot of troops in mid-september to the new 9th army, maybe you should have alook at it.

[wiking85]

The 9th army units are accounted for. The Woyrsch detachment was a German unit filled with the 1st Landwehr corps, a unit Cron assigned to the 8th army. Woyrsch was called back to the colors in January 1914, which means that the assignment of the Landwehr corps and 3 additional divisions (something my additional research has turned up) happened sometime between the start of the war and Tannenberg.

[SMSKaiser]

The 8th Army initilly consisted of 5 Corps, as you already said:

I., XX., XVII. Army Corps, I. Reserve Corps, and the 'Landwehr' Corps Woyrsch

additionally it had the 3rd Reserve division, the 1st cavalry division, the 'Landwehr' Division von der Goltz (from Sleswig arriving during August), and several Ersatz troops.

The Landwehr Corps Woyrsh is counted into your first list.

What I tried to suppose (I'm sorry If i didn't get it over clear enough as i am german not english), was that, as the Corps Woyrsh was assigned under the orders of the I. Austrian Army in Poland in mid-August.

BUT, as it was in Poland, not in East Prussia, i think that Mr. Cron did not count it into the troops actually fighting at the Masurian lakes, which were the other above mentioned plus the Guard Reserve Corps, XI. Army Corps and 8th cavalry division.

-> 6 Corps actually fighting at Masurian lakes.

do you agree?

[wiking85]

SMSkaiser, it seems that you are right. Congrats on your english skill. My German is no where as good. There are not enough english language resources on the subject; could you suggest any in German? Thanks again

[wiking85]

I'd like to bump this thread and see if anyone has information about the composition of the Woyrsch corps in November.

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Battles_Of_Lodz-Cracow

This article mentions 5 divisions in his corps.

[waldo]

I'd like to bump this thread and see if anyone has information about the composition of the Woyrsch corps in November.

http://www.1911encyc..._Of_Lodz-Cracow

This article mentions 5 divisions in his corps.

I have the following information on Armeeabteilung Woyrsch for November 1914:

Waldo

ARMEEABTEILUNG WOYRSCH

Nov 9, 1914

Commander: General der Infantry von Woyrsch

Comprised:

Landwehr Korps

Garde Reserve Korps

35. Reserve Division

Landwehr Division « Bredow »

Source : Brono Clemenz, Generalfeldmarschall von Woyrsch und Seiner Schlesier (Berlin 1919) p. 143.

LANDWEHR KORPS

General der Infantry von Woyrsch

Chief of Staff: Oberstleutnant Heye

(36 battalions, 12 squadrons, 12 batteries)

3rd Landwehr Division:

Generalleutnant Freiherr von König

17th Composite Ersatz Brigade:

Generalleutnant Reiss von Scheurnschloss

Ersatz Battalion, Infantry Regiment 18 2 MG

Ersatz Battalion, Infantry Regiment 17

Ersatz Battalion, Infantry Regiment 77 1 MG

Ersatz Battalion, Infantry Regiment 20

Ersatz Battalion, Infantry Regiment 19

18th Landwehr Brigade:

Generalmajor Neven du Mont

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 37

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 46

17th Landwehr Brigade:

Generalleutnant von Grumbkow

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 6

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 7

Cavalry:

Landwehr Cavalry Regiment 1 (1st, 2d & 3d Landwehr sqns from V Corps)

Divisional Artillery Regiment:

Ersatz Abteilung, Artillery Regiment 20 & 1st Landwehr Battery from V Corps (3 btrys)

Ersatz Abteilung, Artillery Regiment 41& 2d Landwehr Battery from V Corps & (3 btrys)

Ersatz Company, Pioneer Battalion 5

4th Landwehr Division

Generalleutnant von Wegerer

21st Composite Ersatz Brigade: Generalleutnant von Busse

Ersatz Battalion, Infantry Regiment 22 2 MG

Ersatz Battalion, Infantry Regiment 21

Ersatz Battalion, Infantry Regiment 78 2MG

Ersatz Battalion, Infantry Regiment 24

Ersatz Battalion, Infantry Regiment 23

23rd Landwehr Brigade: Oberst von Mutius

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 22

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 23

22nd Landwehr Brigade: Generalmajor Sachs

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 11

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 51

Cavalry:

Ersatz Cavalry Regiment

Landwehr Cavalry Regiment 2 (1st, 2d & 3d Landwehr Sqns from VI Corps)

Divisional Artillery Regiment:

Ersatz Abteilung, Field Artillery Regiment 6 & 1st Landwehr Battery from VI Corps (3 btrys)

Ersatz Abteilung, Field Artillery Regiment 57 & 2d Landwehr Battery from VI Corps (3 btrys)

Ersatz Company, Pioneer Battalion 6

Corps Troops

Foot Artillery: None

Corps Aviation: 1 airplane from the Posen Fortress

Source: Brono Clemenz, Generalfeldmarschall von Woyrsch und Seiner Schlesier (Berlin 1919) pp. 218-19 and Nafziger OOBs

GUARD RESERVE CORPS

General der Artillerie von Gallwitz

3rd Guard Division

Generalleutnant von Bonin

5th Guard Brigade: Generalmajor von Below

Foot Guard Regiment 5

Guard Grenadier Regiment 5

6th Brigade: Generalmajor von Friedeburg

Guard Füsilier Regiment

Infantry Lehr (Instruction) Regiment (2 machinegun companies)

Cavalry:

Guard Reserve Uhlan Regiment

Artillery: Generalmajor Graf von Schweinitz und Krain Freiherr von Kauder

3rd Guard Field Artillery Brigade:

Guard Field Artillery Regiment 5

Guard Field Artillery Regiment 6

1st Guard Reserve Division

Generalmajor Albrecht

1st Guard Reserve Brigade:

Generalmajor Freiherr von Langermann und Erlenkamp

Guard Reserve Regiment 1

Guard Reserve Regiment 2

Guard Reserve Jäger Battalion

15th Reserve Brigade: Generalmajor von Below

Reserve Regiment 64

Reserve Regiment 93

Guard Reserve Schützen Battalion

Cavalry:

Guard Reserve Dragoon Regiment (3 squadrons)

Artillery: Oberst Mertens

Guard Reserve Field Artillery Brigade:

Guard Reserve Artillery Regiment 1

Guard Reserve Artillery Regiment 3

Corps Foot Artillery

II /Guard Foot Artillery Regiment 1

Corps Pioneers

Pioneer Battalion 28 (1st Co with 3rd Guard Division; 2d & 3d Cos with 1st Guard Reserve Division)

Source: Cron, Imperial German Army (2001) & Nafziger OOBs

Independent Units:

35th Reserve Division

Generalleutnant von Schmettau

(Garrison of Fortress Thorn)

5th Landwehr Infantry Brigade: Generalmajor von Müllman

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 2

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 9

20th Landwehr Infantry Brigade: Generalmajor von Hertzberg

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 19

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 107 (Saxony)

Heavy Reserve Horse Regiment 3

Artillery:

Ersatz-Abteilung, Field Artillery Regiment 35

Ersatz-Abteilung, Field Artillery Regiment 81

1st Reserve Company, Pioneer Battalion 17

Nafziger adds the following to the above:

Machine Gun Detachment 4

Fortress Machine Gun Company 4

¾ I / Reserve Foot Artillery Regiment 11 (3 btys)

4th Battery, Reserve Foot Artillery Regiment 15

(100-mm guns)

Source: Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35th_Reserve_Division_(German_Empire) and Nafziger OOBs

Landwehr Division "Bredow"

Generalmajor Graf von Bredow

(Formed Aug 21, 1914 from the garrison of Fortress Posen)

19th Landwehr Brigade (Saxony): Generalmajor von Schauroth

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 47 (with Fortress MG Detachment 3)

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 72 (with Fortress MG Detachment 5)

Landwehr Infantry Regiment 133 (with Fortress MG Detachment 1)

Composite bicycle company, Ersatz squadron Königsjäger zu Pferde 1

Artillery: Generalmajor Gerecke

Ersatz-Abteilung / Field Artillery Regiment 17

I / Foot Artillery Regiment 5

II / Foot Artillery Regiment 6

2d Company, Reserve Pioneer Battalion 1

2d Company, Reserve Pioneer Battalion 26

Source: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/18._Landwehr-Division_(Deutsches_Kaiserreich)

And Nafziger OOBs

[rhetor]

Note that the 3rd Guards Infantry Division spent not more than a few days in November 1914 within the Armee-Abteilung Woyrsch, as it was relocated to the Lodz offensive. The Garde-Reservekorps was disbanded then, with general Gallwitz being made a commander of a composite German-Austro Hungarian Corps.

General von Bonin was not the commander of the 3rd Guards Reserve in November; he had been demoted in the last days of October and replaced with general Karl Litzmann.

[waldo]

Note that the 3rd Guards Infantry Division spent not more than a few days in November 1914 within the Armee-Abteilung Woyrsch, as it was relocated to the Lodz offensive. The Garde-Reservekorps was disbanded then, with general Gallwitz being made a commander of a composite German-Austro Hungarian Corps.

General von Bonin was not the commander of the 3rd Guards Reserve in November; he had been demoted in the last days of October and replaced with general Karl Litzmann.

Thank you for this clarification and correction.

waldo