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Remembered Today:

Do you recognise this location, these people, the event, the uniforms?


ColinY43
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Hi

I have this photo from my cousin whose Mum appears in it with her 1st Husband.

What we wonder is can anyone suggest where it is, what's going on and what can be gleaned from the uniforms?

We think its an Army Point to Point, probably in 1914. I have draw a square around some distinctive roof structures which might help?

C J P (Claude) Hayes, born 22 Mar 1888 at Kurrachee, Seinde, India was educated in Malta and at Wimbledon College. He was known as Pat and was a horseman of some renown at the time. His dad was a Surgeon-Major and his Grandad was an Honorary Captain. He resigned his commission in the 3rd East kent Regiment - The Buffs in 1910 but joined the Secial Researve 1st Bat Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) in 1914. He died Lt/A/Capt at Bray on 9th August 1916.

He had a good friend, a Canadian, who was in the RFC.

Any thoughts very welcome indeed!

Thanks

Colin

post-46415-1246551358.jpg

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Colin

I can't suggest a location, but it's far enough into the war for some of the officers to be wearing soft-topped caps. Perhaps 1915 or early 1916?

Rgds

W.

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Colin - could you enlarge the roof bit and post that?

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Colin - could you enlarge the roof bit and post that?

Certainly Peter, see below

post-46415-1246713445.jpg

Sad that some couldn't see it before though! I thought for a 90+ year old photo at the rstricted 100k download size it wasnt bad.

I look forward to any further light!

Colin

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Colin,

I can't offer any clues but I can point out some things that others may identify.

This close-up shows that all have the same emblem on their caps and collars. Could there be any relevance that the man in the rear looks like he has a tartan over his shoulder or is it just a blanket for the lady in front? The two men at front have bandoliers which look like part of a dress uniform. The two towers in the back look like bell towers on the building although there's a third one behind the head of the standing gentleman in the middle. The gentleman front left has a large decoration on his left cuff. Would the style of greatcoats worn be any indication? Maybe a close-up of the cap or collar badge will give a clue.

Great picture! I have a few 90+ years that fared well. Old photos are a priceless link to family history!

Good hunting.

shawn

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I cannot idenify the location, but the tower/cupola/clock thingy in the background reminds me of those sometimes seen on older racecourse grandstands - or even the more grandiose cricket pavillions. Given the space, tents etc might it be a racecourse somewhere? - such places were often taken over for drills, excercises and events during the war.

chris

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Colin,

thanks for the photo, I look for 'other' things and search around. Two links that MAY offer a clue.The first shows a man in uniform with a similar uniform to the gentleman seated far left. The second shows a location which looks large enough and has similar 'towers' on the roof. Hope this sends you in the right direction. Meanwhile....back to the photo.

thanks,

shawn

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Shawn,

The cuff decoration are the rank insignia of a Second Lieutenant, whilst the "bandolier" is a Sam Browne belt, both standard parts of British Officer uniform and offer no real clues to people or location.

The cap badges look like Royal Fusilier cap badges to me.

The image in your link is of Horseguards in London, which I think we can eliminate....

Steve.

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More looking makes me think it may be architecture from India in the background. Seems the Fusiliers were there in 1914 before returning to England when war was declared. Shimla and Calcutta. Fog, to me, denotes spring which may be a clue also.

Just another thought...

Good Luck,

shawn

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Looks like the old grandstand at Doncaster races.

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Looks like the old grandstand at Doncaster races.

Thanks Guys for all your input.

Royal Fusiliers would fit - Claude Hayes was a 2 Lt/Acting Captain when he died on the Somme in 1916 with 1st Bn Royal Fusiliers (SR) having relinquished his commission with the Buffs in 1910.

I don't think its India but Doncaster Races seems possible, Pat Hayes was alledgedly a superior and competitive horseman and hunted to hounds and staghounds. Tho' the 1st Bn R F were supposed to have prepared in Ireland and gone to France in 1914. My research had turned up this jewel:

"The 1st Battalion, The Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) was

serving at Kinsale in 17th Brigade and 6th Division on the outbreak of war

on 4 Aug 1914. Later that month it embarked at Holyhead and moved to

Cambridge. On 7 Sep 1914 it embarked for France from Southampton with the

British Expeditionary Force, landing at St Nazaire on 10 Sep. The 1st

Battalion spent the entire war in France and Flanders. The battalion began

to move towards the Aisne on 15 Sep and took over front line trenches in

the Soupit sector on 21 Sep. The 1st Battalion spent the entire war in

France and Flanders. It fought at Armentieres between 13 Oct and 2 Nov

1914 and at Hooge on 9 Oct 1915. On 14 Oct 1915 after the Battle of Loos,

the battalion within 17th Brigade was transferred to 24th Division, one of

Kitchener's New Army divisions that had suffered badly at Loos. The 1st

Battalion ended the war in the same formations on 11 Nov 1918 at Bavai, France."

He was in London (7 Bedford Gardens, London) in August 1914 when he married my cousins Mum and was in Paris later that month where they had a church blessing. The 1911 census shows her in London with her sister, both born in Ireland and I am starting to think they may have connections with Kinsale - we dont 'Know"!

Any further offerings would be most welcome. I have a copy of the Obituary and Memorial Service report for him from the Taunton Newspaper of 1916 which is full of data which only confuses the picture and is known to contain mistruths (according to the London gazette of a few years later!)

Thanks guys.

Colin

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You probably have this but just in case

(I love the unravelling of a mystery!)

shawn

edit...

there was a CP Hayes 2nd LT in a (small) photo here. Could this be the man? Where this battalion was may shed some light on the photo's location.

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You probably have this but just in case

(I love the unravelling of a mystery!)

shawn

edit...

there was a CP Hayes 2nd LT in a (small) photo here. Could this be the man? Where this battalion was may shed some light on the photo's location.

Shawn

Thanks for both of those. I do have the CWGC grab already, thanks, but I hadnt seen the other. I cant see that it would be him in the 18th but perhaps someone else will say they wwre not all 18th?

The Hayes Family, especially his wifes parentage is a mystery I havent been able to unravel. Believe me I have tried... am still trying, but I have found where his parents and siblings went following uncomfortable and embarressing revalations in the London Gazette in 1925 ;-)

Colin

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