Nolfolk Regiment Soldier

[nigatt]

Dear Friends

I wouldbe most gratefulof any information on the following old comrade of the Norfolk Regiment

His name was Owen Henry Abbs Thirtle. He served in the Norfolk Regiment. Hi snumber was 29350. He was awarded the 1914/1915 star, war medal and victory medal.

Any info most gratefully received

[ralphjd]

Born 1897 registered ERPINGHAM christened 31-1-1897 RUNTON mother Frances Anna.He married Rose Gabbatis Grimsby 1925. Ralph.

[GrahamC]

According to the 1901 Census he was living in the home of his grandparents, Robert and mary Thirtle at Runton. His father seems to have been George A. Thirtle, a gardener. As well as the Norfolks he was in the Essex Regt.

Here's his MIC:

[Paul Nixon]

Thanks for posting the MIC Graham. I had a look a look for it (and couldn't find it) when Nigel originally posted because I was surprised that Owen Thirtle had the 1914-15 Star. The information I have on his Norfolks number suggests that he would have joined up in 1917. That ties in with the MIC which only mentions the award of the BWM and Vict. The Essex Regt number also looks - at a glance - to date to 1917 onwards.

Paul

* EDIT "wouldn't" for "would" on 2nd line - a crucial typo!

[nigatt]

Many thanks Guys. Do you know if there's likely to be any other information out there?

[GrahamC]

Hi

There is just a possibility that his Service Records have partially survived in the 'burnt series' but Ancestry haven't uploaded the "T"s as yet so I can't check.

If you wanted to employ a researcher there are many out there who would look at the NA for you.

Goodluck and good hunting

Graham

[nigatt]

Hi

There is just a possibility that his Service Records have partially survived in the 'burnt series' but Ancestry haven't uploaded the "T"s as yet so I can't check.

If you wanted to employ a researcher there are many out there who would look at the NA for you.

Goodluck and good hunting

Graham

Many thanks Graham

[Stebie9173]

When you see combinations of Regiments it is always worth looking at the nearby numbers to see if there is any pattern. In this case there is:

41310 Ernest William Bell Norfolk Regiment 29274, Essex Regiment 41310

41311 E A Blyth Norfolk Regiment 26275, Essex Regiment 41311

41312 J Booty Norfolk Regiment 29276, Essex Regiment 41312

41313 A Browne Norfolk Regiment 29277, Essex Regiment 41313

41314 J Burton Norfolk Regiment 29278, Essex Regiment 41314

41315

41316 Jesse Collins Norfolk Regiment 29281, Essex Regiment 41316 (Killed in action, 28-4-1917, 13th Essex - Formerly 5667, Norfolk Regt)

41317 H G Cooper Norfolk Regiment 29282, Essex Regiment 41317

41318 F Carson Norfolk Regiment 29283, Essex Regiment 41318

41319 Herbert Dack Norfolk Regiment 29285, Essex Regiment 41319 (Killed in action, 3-5-1917, 13th Essex - Formerly 5723, Norfolk Regt)

41320

41321 Alfred Charles Doubleday Norfolk Regiment 29287, Essex Regiment 41321 (Killed in action, 19-4-1917, 13th Essex - Formerly 5712, Norfolk Regt)

41322 Edward Driver Norfolk Regiment 5454, Essex Regiment 41322, Royal Engineers 530739

41323 Charles Durrant Norfolk Regiment 29290, Essex Regiment 41323 (Killed in action, 14-4-1917, 13th Essex - Formerly 5480, Norfolk Regt.)

41324 James Daynes Eagling Norfolk Regiment 29291, Essex Regiment 41324

41325 J W Earl Norfolk Regiment 29292, Essex Regiment 41325

41326 A Softly Norfolk Regiment 29344, Essex Regiment 41326

41327 George William Smart Norfolk Regiment 29345, Essex Regiment 41327

41328 James Henry Starling Norfolk Regiment 29347, Essex Regiment 41328 (Killed in action, 28-4-1917, 13th Essex - Formerly 5723, Norfolk Regt)

41329

41330 W Steggles Norfolk Regiment 29348, Essex Regiment 41330

41331 Claud Elleroy Stone Norfolk Regiment 29349, Essex Regiment 41331 (Killed in action, 3-5-1917, 11th Essex - Formerly 5578, Norfolk Regt)

41332 O H Thirtle Norfolk Regiment 29350, Essex Regiment 41321

41333 George Charles Utting Norfolk Regiment 29352, Essex Regiment 41333 (Killed in action, 7-12-1916, 11th Essex - Formerly 5463, Norfolk Regt)

41334 Henry Vincent Norfolk Regiment 29354, Essex Regiment 41334 (Killed in action, 28-5-1918, 11th Essex - Formerly 5542, Norfolk Regt)

41335 William Charles White Norfolk Regiment 29356, Essex Regiment 41335 (Killed in action, 3-5-1917, 11th Essex - Formerly 5549, Norfolk Regt)

41336 Leonard Wisby Essex Regiment 41336, Labour Corps 657952

41337 Charles Woods Norfolk Regiment 29358, Essex Regiment 41337 (Killed in action, 22-4-1917, 11th Essex - Formerly 5471, Norfolk Regt)

41338 William R C Worman Essex Regiment 41338, Labour Corps 578979

41339 Walter Winter Norfolk Regiment 29368, Essex Regiment 41339

Notice how, 1) The surnames are all in alphabetical order; 2) how close the Norfolk numbers are to each other as well; 3) The men who were killed from the group were in eiather 11th or 13th Battalions of the Essex Regiment.

The surname lining up is a strong indication that these men were part of a group of men being transferred at the same time. The jump in surnames from "Earl" to "Softly" also suggests a batching by surnames - e.g. The officer in charge of posting the men to their units saying "This pile of forms with surnames "A" to "E" and "S" to "Z" to the xth battalion please, and the rest to yth battalion...."

Unfortunately out of all that lot I can only find some fragmentary records of one man:

James Daynes Eagling

Enlisted 28-3-1916.

A milkman from Norfolk. Next of kin: Father, Edgar Eagling.

To France, 26-10-1916.

Which is not much.

However, the combinations of numbers above (5000s numbers in the Norfolks, then 29000s numbers in the Norfolk, then 41000s numbers in the Essex) suggest a transfer of men from a Territorial battalion of the Norfolks to a Regular/New Army battalion of the Norfolks, and then onto an Essex Regiment battalion.

The records of Alfred Jermyn follow a similar route, and I would suggest that a similar transfer path was followed by the above men:

Alfred Jermyn,

Voluntarily enlisted under the Derby Scheme, age 28 years & 2 months, 9-12-1915.

Called up, 22-3-1916.

Allocated to the Territorial Force part of the Norfolk Regiment, and allocated to 5th Battalion Norfolk Regiment with number 5401, 24-3-1916.

Posted to 3/5th (5th Reserve) Battalion of the Norfolk Regiment, 29-3-1916.

Posted to 3rd (Reserve) Battalion of the Norfolk Regiment, triggering a number change to 29311, 18-10-1916.

Embarked to France via Folkestone & Boulogne, 26-10-1916.

Posted to 8th Battalion Norfolk Regiment, 26-10-1916.

Arrived at No. 17 Infantry Base Depot, Etaples, 27-10-1916.

Probably did not physically join 8th battalion, Norfolk Regiment, instead probably waiting at 17th Infantry Base Depot.

Transferred to the Essex Regiment, triggering another number change to No. 41205 in the Essex Regiment, 7-11-1916.

So, I would suggest that Owen Thirtle's movements MAY have been:

Possibly a member of the 5th (Territorial Force) Battalion of the Norfolk Regiment, and likely training/serving with 3/5th Battalion.

Posted to 3rd (Reserve) Battalion of the Norfolk Regiment, triggering a number change to 29350, circa late October/early November 1916, but possibly as a large group transfer on 28-10-1916.

Embarked to France via Folkestone & Boulogne, 26-10-1916, as part of the same group as James Eagling & Arthur Jermyn.

Posted to an unknown (probably New Army) Battalion of Norfolk Regiment, 26-10-1916.

Arrived at No. 17 Infantry Base Depot, Etaples, 27-10-1916.

Probably did not physically join his allocated battalion of the Norfolk Regiment, instead probably waiting at 17th Infantry Base Depot.

Transferred to the Essex Regiment, triggering another number change to No. 41332 in the Essex Regiment in early/mid-November 1916.

Joined either the 11th or the 13th Battalions of the Essex Regiment some time in November 1916.

One final note - since these men transferred to the 3rd Battalion of the Norfolk Regiment in England, then there is no guarantee that they went overseas immediately though it seems likely that they did.

I hope this helps,

Now I really must sort out an e-mail for someone!!

Steve.

P.S.

I notice that there is a Thirtle on the "Picture Norfolk" website, but not Owen Thirtle.

http://norlink.norfolk.gov.uk/02_Catalogue...10754&fr=tl