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Belgian Franctireurs 1914


fritz
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Just some people who got killed in this tragedy.

professorVincent Lenertz (60 years old), working as the main architect to Leuven university. At 6.30 in the morning German soldiers came to his house. His family (wife, 84 year old mother and five children)was hiding in the cellar. He came up to open the door (as he was from the grand duchy of Luxemburg he was fluent in German. He was shot; his family was deported

Honoré Ponthière (64 years old) professorof metallurgy and electricity (one of his publications can still be bought on Amazon). shot 26/08/1914

Father Eugene Dupiereux S.J.

on 27/08/1914 a group of priests and theology students were marched in the direction of Brussels. In a diary entry they found the following text

“(Free translation) : Without question I hate the Germans. In my youth I was taught that in times gone by, it were the barbarians who murdered the innocent

inhabitants of towns. I learned that a long time it was the Caliph Omar who burned the Library of Alexandria; The Germans did the same thing in Leuven. Those people

can be proud of their KULTUR.

Father Dupiereux was taken out of the group, allowed confession and shot.

Carl

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello again

just some info There is an interview of major von Manteuffel by a Dutch journalist Lambertus Mokveld for the newspaper 'De Tijd'. Mokveld was in Leuven in 08/14. As a journalist from a neutral (and seen by the Germans as being sympathetic to their cause) country his text is very interesting.

Does anybody has info on a major Georg von Stössel , commander of 1st battalion Landwehr-infanterie regiment 20 (i think part of 11th landwehr brigade)

Carl

back from warmer climes :ph34r:

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Hello again

just some info There is an interview of major von Manteuffel by a Dutch journalist Lambertus Mokveld for the newspaper 'De Tijd'. Mokveld was in Leuven in 08/14. As a journalist from a neutral (and seen by the Germans as being sympathetic to their cause) country his text is very interesting.

Does anybody has info on a major Georg von Stössel , commander of 1st battalion Landwehr-infanterie regiment 20 (i think part of 11th landwehr brigade)

Carl

back from warmer climes :ph34r:

Dear Carl;

Although I am not directly interested in Leuven (my grand-father and the big guns were elsewhere), I would be very interested in the interview. This is the sort of source that is more likely to be believable than stuff generated on either side during the "propaganda hurricane". That is why I am so eager to find letters and diaries from the period, preferably in manuscript form.

I will be happy to do a detailed study of von Stoessel for you, I have 40-50 Ranglisten going back to 1879. My last data-point might be May 6, 1914. There is a Rangliste from that date one foot from my left foot, let me take a quick look. (A detailed study will have to wait.)

There was no Major von Stoessel (oe = Umlaut o) or any rank in the Prussian or Wuerttemburg Armies in 1914, either active or Reserves, which would cover about 85% of the "German Army". Of course in 1914 there was four "German Armies". He might have been a Saxon or Bavarian, or in a totally inactive status, off the rolls. When the war started some very retired officers, some quite old, were brought out to command Landwehr or Landsturm formations.

There was a Hauptmann Stoessel (no Umlaut) von der Heyde in Infanterie=Regiment von Luetzow (1. Rheinisches) Nr. 25, commander of the 6th Company on May 6, 1914; I would think that he went to war with his regiment.

Bob

PS: I can't do anymore on this at this moment, but I have some ideas for further research.

I (long) owe you an e-mail.

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There is an interview of major von Manteuffel by a Dutch journalist Lambertus Mokveld for the newspaper 'De Tijd'. Mokveld was in Leuven in 08/14. As a journalist from a neutral (and seen by the Germans as being sympathetic to their cause) country his text is very interesting.

Does anybody has info on a major Georg von Stössel , commander of 1st battalion Landwehr-infanterie regiment 20 (i think part of 11th landwehr brigade)

Carl

Carl;

There is no von Stoessel in the 1914-1918 Ehrenrangliste. This reference, published in 1926 by the regular officers' association, covers all four German Armies, including every officer who was a regular officer in 1914. So we know that he was not a regular, Reserve, or Landwehr officer in the Prussian or Wuerttemburg Armies on May 6, 1914, nor was he an active duty officer in any of the four armies as of the start of the war. He could have been a completely retired officer in any part of Germany as of 1914, or a reserve officer in Saxony or Bavaria. I do not know where Landwehr=Infanterie=Regiment Nr. 20 came from. Let me try a few other things.

1900 preuss. und wuertt. Rangliste: First I see that the officer I mentioned before actually was, in 1900, Lt. Stoeffel von der Heyde, not Stoessel. For some reason the alphabetization in the Ranglisten is odd when it comes to Uemlauts, so I searched widely in the Name Index, and there is no Stoessel, von or no von. So it is very unlikely that he was a Prussian or Wuerttemburg officer of any sort, or he would have almost certainly been a lt. or captain of some sort in this Rangliste.

1911 Deutsche Rangliste: This is a competing Rangliste covering all armies and the navy, but with less detail. As of December 1, 1910, there was a Leutnant von Stoessel (no Uemlaut) in Preuss. Garde=Grenadier=Regiment Nr. 3, date of rank July 19, 1905, but he dissapeared before 1914. Also, on that date there was a Lt. Stoessel (with Uemlaut) d.o.r. March 9, 1903, in the Bavarian 10. Infanterie=Regiment Prinz Ludwig, but it is highly unlikely that he was made a "von" and promoted from Leutnant to Major in three years. This volume does not have reserve officers, I proved it by trying to find my grand-father, a Feuerwerk=Hauptmann der Landwehr in 1911, without success. (He had to resign his active duty commission when his wife discovered his second "love-family" that he had at his garrison post; she poisoned him with Deadly Nightshade and paralysed him, but he recovered well enough to become a reserve officer. I am from the "love-family".)

So it is almost certain that he was a reserve officer of some sort in the Saxon or Bavarian armies. I only have one or two of those Ranglisten, but on CDs, and I am not sure where they are. There are people with more complete collections (I have an e-friend with a complete collection of Prussian Ranglisten from 1799 to 1914, for example.) There now may be some on the Internet now, I don't know.

Bob

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Carl;

Can you provide a lead to the article in De Tijd? I assume that it is in Dutch/Flemish.

Can you share where you were? In the "South Seas"? Lucky devil. My last two vacations were foiled by freak snow-storms messing up air travel. Or maybe a luxurious vacation in Afghanistan?

Bob

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I came across von Stössel in a German text on the Leipzig trials.

Mokveld published a book in 1916 on the 'De overweldiging van België". He describes von Manteuffel as a very polite officer who does not talk about civilians firing at German troops but talks about 'Belgian soldiers in civilian clothes'

Carl

well i did end up for some r&r in the Rome Cavalieri Waldorf Astoria :hypocrite:

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  • 4 months later...

I believe those viewing from the States have the full view for all of them:

http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000495263

http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000637006

So it is almost certain that he was a reserve officer of some sort in the Saxon or Bavarian armies. I only have one or two of those Ranglisten, but on CDs, and I am not sure where they are. There are people with more complete collections (I have an e-friend with a complete collection of Prussian Ranglisten from 1799 to 1914, for example.) There now may be some on the Internet now, I don't know.

Bob

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Carl,

Major a.D. Georg v. Stoessel. Born 23 October 1856 in Ratibor, Silesia. He retired as a captain from Infanterie-Regiment Kaiser Wilhelm 2. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr. 116 on 18 October 1900 and was promoted to brevet (charakterisierter) Major on 18 January 1901. He was the commander of III./Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 20 at mobilisation. Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 20 was formed in Wittenberg and subordinated to 11. Gemischte- (mixed)Landwehr-Brigade. The regimental commander was Oberstleutnant Arthur Gallus.

Bob,

he is listed in the Ehrenrangliste as v. Stoeßel on page 1024.

Regards

Glenn

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Just some people who got killed in this tragedy.

professorVincent Lenertz (60 years old), working as the main architect to Leuven university. At 6.30 in the morning German soldiers came to his house. His family (wife, 84 year old mother and five children)was hiding in the cellar. He came up to open the door (as he was from the grand duchy of Luxemburg he was fluent in German. He was shot; his family was deported

What a piece of serendipity!

I am currently coming to the end of compiling an inventory of all the Luxembourgers who died or served in WW1.

I have Vincent Lenertz, but with no details at all. I would love to have anything you know about him.

Even simple things like date of birth, etc.

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David

This should provide you with what you need. His biography is about halfway down.

http://www.kerknet.be/parochie/3359/content.php?ID=1098

TR

Wow!! Mind you, Dutch is not my first, second or third language. Come to that, not my fourth either.

I'll have to find a friend.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello again

On 28/08/14 major von Stoessel was clearing houses in a suburb of Leuven with his unit of LW20. In the evening there was a 'wüste, planlose Shiesserei' (fierce unplanned shooting). Fourteen soldiers were injured. He knew that most of his soldiers had been drinking heavily. A lot, if not everything indicated that there only had been friendly fire. He still decided that an exemple had to be made. Armee orders called for a 'rücksichtslos scharfes vorgehen' against civilians who were suspected of using arms. Fifty four men (including priests) were lined up and each seventh one was shot. The judge at his trial congratulated him for his 'humanity'

Carl

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  • 2 years later...

sorry to bring up this old thread but recently a picture was shown on gallica alledgedly of von Manteuffel town commander of Leuven/Louvain.

I've got my doubts about it. Any suggestions ?

Carl

post-36833-0-56512100-1408904704_thumb.j

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  • 6 years later...

Major d R Mantouffel was badly wounded at Violaines, near La Bassee (whilst Commander of I/IR 112) on 22.10.14 and died in hospital in Dusseldorf on 27.12.14. IR 112 was part of XIV Armee Korps, who would have been in Belgium at the time.

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52 minutes ago, fougassefilms said:

Major d R Mantouffel was badly wounded at Violaines, near La Bassee (whilst Commander of I/IR 112) on 22.10.14 and died in hospital in Dusseldorf on 27.12.14. IR 112 was part of XIV Armee Korps, who would have been in Belgium at the time.

That must be another von Manteuffel (E not O). There were dozens of officers with the name von Manteuffel in the German army...

On 24/08/2014 at 20:27, cdr said:

sorry to bring up this old thread but recently a picture was shown on gallica alledgedly of von Manteuffel town commander of Leuven/Louvain.

I've got my doubts about it. Any suggestions ?

Carl

post-36833-0-56512100-1408904704_thumb.j

He looks like a general to me.

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