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Remembered Today:

WR- prefix Royal Engineers service number


tjec

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Thanks David you're right, though I've not had a problem before;

anyway he's easy enough to find b.1876 Wilts Depot Battalion 5410 date 1914 embodied OCtober 1914.

Odd he didn't go to India with the other TF Bns from Wilts but I guess he was in the 3rd echelon, or even stayed on the Reserve until his transfer to the RE in January 1917. He'd have been more help to the war effort in the GWR Workshop than on Garrison duty in India or the UK, but that seems too sensible!

Ken

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Thanks Ken.

I have his file via my local library - its free from there. He had left the GWR by 1911 and was casting statues at the Art Metal Works, Frome, incl Lady Justice for the Old Baily. Any idea what was make at the depot at St Omer ??

Paul

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Hi Steve,

Thanks for the information. Interestingly, on his MIC the man is down as rank = PNR (Pioneer) not SPR (Sapper), would this indicate a particular trade or skill?

His number was WR-21211.

Regards,

Norman

1146 Rifleman London Regiment

WR/193660 private Royal Engineers

450045 Corporal London Regiment

549862 Corporal Royal Engineers

Hello

Some resent research on medals, This Rifleman was pre war member of 11th London Regiment, he was a Railwayman by trade and was drafted with a large number of Territorial infantry & yeomanry troops representing very many different Regiments from every corner of the U.K to the Hajez early in 1915, all renumbered consecutively no matter what the previous unit, after the war this man remained with the R.E joining the 2nd London T.F Divisional R.E, Truly a mixed bag with one thing in common The Railway industry,

Thanks

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Any idea what was make at the depot at St Omer ??

Paul

Early in the war St Omer was the base for GHQ, it's perhaps misleading to suggest he was specifically there, as the war progressed the whole of Northern France became an armed camp including industrial complexes/salvage/support/logistics/hospitals etc. Assuming he was following his trade (confirmed by the document showing his Army grading as 'Superior') and the fact that on discharge he was in medical category B1 (Garrison Service Abroad) it's unlikely he was engaged than in a workshop somewhere. His trade would require a fixed workshop. There was a lot of brass in shell cases I wonder if he recycled material?

Ken

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Thanks Ken, we shall probably never know but you are quite correct, with all that scrap brass to hand it would make sense to reuse it if possible for lower quality parts and no doubt the odd bit of 'trench art' as well !!

Paul

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One of the men I am researching on Dudley's WM also belonged to RE Inland Waterways. His no. is WR/314111. From his papers on Ancestry, I have found his rank shown as Sapper(Waterman) and the Unit he belonged to as 204 A.S. Can anyone tell me what that means, please?

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One of the men I am researching on Dudley's WM also belonged to RE Inland Waterways. His no. is WR/314111. From his papers on Ancestry, I have found his rank shown as Sapper(Waterman) and the Unit he belonged to as 204 A.S. Can anyone tell me what that means, please?

Grasping at straws i'm afraid, Naval terrms A/S stands for Anti Submarine ...? Could be a connection if worked costal defence perhapse, however it seems qa little unlikly.

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Terry,

He's Cecil H. Fletcher, died 20/2/19.

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There are also some points and maps for this topic covered here:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=187728&hl=

I did follow-up my granddad's cousin hoping to shed some light but his service record appears not to have survived. Alas, every relative I am researching that was an OR (ten in total) do not have surviving records.

Interesting to read here that there might be records of civilian service with the railway as granddad's cousin certainly did have a career with the railways before and after the war and I think ultimately was a guard when he retired. He would have been in the Morayshire area though so I might try and search for something on that.

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Seaforths

I can tell you that the GWR [Great Western Railway] records on Ancestry are quite comprehensive, I have found it a help for both before and after WWI.

Good luck.

Paul

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One of the men I am researching on Dudley's WM also belonged to RE Inland Waterways. His no. is WR/314111. From his papers on Ancestry, I have found his rank shown as Sapper(Waterman) and the Unit he belonged to as 204 A.S. Can anyone tell me what that means, please?

Possibly Army Supply Coy? His record shows he was in the 'Operations Division' which would be the higher command level.

(from LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/otherre.htm Army Troops Companies (established similar to Field Companies, but for behind-the-lines bridging and water work)

Although he qualified as 'waterman', like Paul's man he was also a 'moulder' and was tested in that trade according to a document dated 3rd July 1917.

Given his age I wonder if he failed to qualify to the standard required by the RE but they kept him and and that's why became a 'proficient' waterman. Then again he may simply have volunteered for duty overseas.(?)

He also served at Richborough.

Ken

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John

I am reasonably certain that 204 AS refers to the barge he was serving on. An "As" barge was a steam powered vessel, in this case barge number"As 204", the letters and number for some reason being reversed on his record. Other pre-fixes in include "Ac" which indicates a barge specially constructed for cross-channel work and "A" which I think was applied to dumb barges.

TR

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Obliged, one and all.

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Seaforths

I can tell you that the GWR [Great Western Railway] records on Ancestry are quite comprehensive, I have found it a help for both before and after WWI.

Good luck.

Paul

Many thanks Paul I will certainly follow it up. The man had 5 service numbers and if the GWR has nothing on him, it might give me a lead to somewhere else. I will also try St Google of the t'interweb and see what I can get from that. I have some heritage information about the original lines being put in and operated which might also be worth another look at - thanks again.

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As an update on my previous. It is the National Archives of Scotland for their railway records however the National Railway Museum site also has useful information for tracing ancestors that worked in the railways which is where I got the information from about the Scottish Archives. These links may be useful for other Forum Pals looking for personnel records of railway employees:

http://www.nas.gov.uk/guides/railway.asp

and

http://www.nrm.org.uk/ResearchAndArchive/researchhelp/FamilyHistory.aspx#step1

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Thank you for sharing that Seaforths, I shall certainly look at that site now as well. Paul

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  • 1 month later...

Hello, this is my first post, I hope no-one minds me jumping into this thread. Having read through it there probably isn't much information anyone can add. But I'm trying to trace the Company/Unit of Sidney Sargent whose regimental number was WR 336146, he was a Pioneer. The only thing that survives is his medal card, no war record or pension records can be found. He was from Essex, I don't no whether that might help? And also would there be any extra information on the medal rolls? Any help would be appreciated. Mark.

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  • 11 months later...

My grandfather Was Arthur E Baxter WR280353 I am trying to find out his RE history, He had been in the Buck Battalion of the Oxon & Bucks Light Infantry until 1916 when he was discharged as Time served, he,d signed up as a Territorial private in 1911. Any help would be gretfully received.

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  • 1 month later...

Just found this post whilst searching for something else, but I hope that I can address some of the frequent questions. I have looked in detail at the WR/ numbers listed on CWGC.

Firstly all numbers should contain 6 digits, CWGC has some that are 5 digits that appear to br typos.

I have compiled a database of all WR/ numbers and then sorted the list by number. The vast majority of numbers in the WR/100000 and 200000 series, where a unit is shown are in Railway Companies. For 300000 the majority are IWT, (with a small group of 3552xx being the exception)

There are only 23 listed with WR/4xxxxx and only 6 of those have a unit shown (5 Railway and 1 Roads and Quarries). The 5xxxxx and 6xxxxx numbers are all IWT (with a single Raiway exception)

The image below shows some extracts from this database.

WR2.jpg

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Glen

Whilst I generally agree with your findings I do have a couple of comments to make....

Firstly all numbers should contain 6 digits, CWGC has some that are 5 digits that appear to br typos.

Not so I'm afraid. Five digit WR/ prefixed numbers are not typos but were issued to the Road Construction/Quarrying Companies of the RE Transportation Branch.

I have looked in detail at the WR/ numbers listed on CWGC. <snip> I have compiled a database of all WR/ numbers and then sorted the list by number. The vast majority of numbers in the WR/100000 and 200000 series, where a unit is shown are in Railway Companies. For 300000 the majority are IWT, (with a small group of 3552xx being the exception)

The problem with creating a database from a single source is that you don't get the full picture. Generally speaking, in my opinion, your findings are correct but I'd take a closer look at the WR/3552xx range, or any other WR/3xxxxx range come to that, being issued to Railways. I think it more likely that these were IWT men originally who were later transferred to the Railways and retained their original (re)number on transfer and were not numbers issued directly to Railways.

I believe I've read elsewhere on the forum that Terry Reeves is doing some detailed research on these WR/ prefixed numbers so it will be interesting to see if he comes up with anything.

Regards

Steve

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Glen and Steve

I have spent sometime looking at WR pre-fixed numbers and my research shows what Steve has indicated, the WR1/xxxxxx and WR2/xxxxx belong to railway companies. I have managed to construct some nominal rolls for a couple of the railway construction companies by using their original 6 figure numbers and their WR pre-fixed numbers issued from March 1918 as per the ACI authorising this change. The ACI ordered that all units in Transportation Troops produce alphabetical nominal rolls in advance of the change and that men on the rolls would receive consecutive WR pre-fixed numbers. Some of the railway construction companies have almost a complete set of service records, so this has been easy to confirm. ROD units are a different matter. These were often split up into detachments and those service records that exist do not record the parent unit or the detachment so it is almost impossible to pin the unit down.

IWT units, as Steve has said, start at WR3/******. There are no six figure WR numbers beginning with 4. They start again at WR/5****** and continue to at least WR 6. Interestingly many men who enlisted into the IWT in 1915 were allotted the later WR5 pre-fixed numbers, whilst men who joined say in 1917, were given earlier WR pre-fixed numbers. Men joining from Canada and the USA in 1918, appear to have received WR 6 pre-fixed numbers although I will have to recheck that.

With regard to RCC and Quarrying Companies, I agree with Steve on the five figure numbers.

Inevitably there are anomalies, but the research still goes on.

TR

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TR

Thanks for the conformation, good to know I wasn't talking complete nonsense.

It's interesting that you say that the "ACI ordered that all units in Transportation Troops produce alphabetical nominal rolls in advance of the change and that men on the rolls would receive consecutive WR pre-fixed numbers". I did start looking into the subject myself a number of years ago (didn't get very far to be honest), as my GGFather was in the 30th Railway Labour Battalion (161818 / WR/255330) and from memory I'm sure they were (re)numbered consecutively but based on their original six-digit number, not alphabetically. I'll have to dig out my notes for confirmation but I suspect that in the renumbering scheme they were one of the inevitable anomalies.

Regards

Steve

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Steve/Terry

Thanks for the comments. I do agree that there are 5 figure numbers that I had not fully picked out before (My error for not looking closely enough at the way Excel sorts alpha-numeric numbers) and these include all the 4xxxx numbers on my data base.

I am currently adding data from other sources and as Terry says "The reearch continues"

Glen

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