Crunchy Posted 15 June , 2009 Share Posted 15 June , 2009 Does anyone know the names or designations of the British tanks that supported the 4th Australian Division attack on the Hindenburg Line at the First Battle of Bullecourt on 11 April 1917 and the locations each was put out of action during the battle? The tanks were allocated to support the 12th Australian Brigade on the left (north) and the 4th Australian Brigade on the right (south). Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekenai Posted 15 June , 2009 Share Posted 15 June , 2009 g'day Crunchy, My grandfather(WIA) and his brother (KIA)were in this action. In 1992 & 94, l went and had a look were the action took place. With the help of the Mayor (M. LeTaille) l marked where the furthest tank was stopped, (near where Harry Murray lead the advance). LeTaille's family -l hope l have his surname correct as l'm away from home, actually removed the tank from the battlefield and stored it in his barn after the war. When l get back l will find my papers and send you what l have. As for the names and designations--l haven't a clue. sorry. dekenai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedog Posted 15 June , 2009 Share Posted 15 June , 2009 Chris I am away from home at the moment, but from memory there is a map of !st. Bullecourt and the tank locations in Bean's Official History. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 15 June , 2009 Share Posted 15 June , 2009 Major William Watson's tanks were in support, he commanded 11 Coy of D Bn. 11 tanks went into action; only one was not destroyed Will add more detail this evening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Moore Posted 15 June , 2009 Share Posted 15 June , 2009 Chris, the WD and company numbers for the tanks are as follows: 798(D21), 531(D22), 796(D23), 593(D24), 711(D25), 799(D26), 800 and 590(D27 and D29), 586(D28), 797(D30), and 585(D32). 702(D52) had been left behind at Achiet-le Grand due to mechanical problems, and did not take part in the battle. I don't know any of the tank names, or if they were named. There is strong evidence to identify Bean's wrecks as: (3)799, (4)586, 11(796). I think there is reasonable certainty about the identity of wrecks (6)590 and (10)797. Wrecks (1) and (9) are probably 711 and 800, respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 15 June , 2009 Share Posted 15 June , 2009 I think this is the map to which Gerald is referring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 15 June , 2009 Share Posted 15 June , 2009 I think this is the command list (Gerald will confirm right or wrong) MacIlwaine and Richards were probably there but I'm not sure of the third Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriaty Posted 15 June , 2009 Share Posted 15 June , 2009 There is quite a lot of information about the tanks in the Bullecourt (Arras) book by Graham Keech in the Battleground Europe series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunchy Posted 15 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2009 Hi Everyone, Many thanks for all of your replies. They are much appreciated. I should have said that I have Bean's history and map of the battle. Apologies for that. I am trying to put names to each of the tanks in their final locations. Gerald, many thanks for the identities of the tanks in Bean's map, exactly what I was looking for. If anyone has anymore information on the remaining tanks that would be appreciated. Again many thanks to all who replied. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Moore Posted 16 June , 2009 Share Posted 16 June , 2009 I think that Lt. Puttock was in command of 711. According to Maj. Watson's account, he was the commander of the tank which was knocked out while returning from the railway embankment to Noreuil. The operational diagram for 11 Coy. which was appended to the D Bn. war diary indicates that tank as 711. Otherwise, I would agree with your list, Stephen. Although Watson does not mention them by name, Lt's MacIlwaine, Richards and Sherwood were the other tank commanders (according to Jonathan Walker). Lt. Morris would seem to have commanded tank 593. Watson's account of Morris' action corresponds best with this tank's movements in the operational diagram. Lt. Bernstein probably commanded 531 or 798. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 16 June , 2009 Share Posted 16 June , 2009 Thanx Gerald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 16 June , 2009 Share Posted 16 June , 2009 Interesting the D Bn war diary gives no details of this action and the history of the Bn makes little mention. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 16 June , 2009 Share Posted 16 June , 2009 I don't believe these tanks were named. Certainly I've never seen references to names in any of the papers on the action at The National Archives. So, this is Sidearm's quick history of tank names in the Great War. Mark Is used in 1916 generally had names, but they were chosen randomly. Mark IIs carried no names. Mark IIIs were training machines in the UK only and had no names. Some B Battalion Mark IVs at Messines had random names, A Battalion too I believe. From July 1917 names became organised (i.e. not random) and started with the Battalion letter. This practice continued into 1918 when Battalions were given ordinal numbers, so that the 8th Battalion used names starting with the 8th letter of the alphabet. Tanks in Ireland and Gaza provide exceptions. The Gaza Detachment, the Special Service Coy of N Battalion in Ireland in 1917 and 17th Battalion in Dublin in 1918 all use seemingly random names, although it is possible that 17th Battalion simply kept the name used by the units the tanks had been transferred from. I could talk about tank names for ever - a fascinating subject. But please note - this was my quick history and exceptions prove the rule! Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hansen Posted 17 June , 2009 Share Posted 17 June , 2009 ...So, this is Sidearm's quick history of tank names in the Great War. Mark Is used in 1916 generally had names, but they were chosen randomly. Mark IIs carried no names... ...I could talk about tank names for ever - a fascinating subject. But please note - this was my quick history and exceptions prove the rule! Gwyn Just a little nitpick, Gwyn. I know you said that there are rule-proving exceptions but there were a few Mk II's that were named. "Charlie Chaplin" (777), "Iron Duke" (781), "Lusitania" (788), and "The Perfect Lady" (578) are four examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 20 June , 2009 Share Posted 20 June , 2009 Indeed there are! Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter and Ellen Posted 20 June , 2009 Share Posted 20 June , 2009 Jean Letaille and Claude Durand organised the uncovering of two of the tank wrecks a few years ago but there was very little left. The worthwhile pieces that they recovered are at Jean's private museum in Bullecourt (must ring for an appointment) and a section of track is lying next to the side of the Bullecourt church carpark. Regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 27 March , 2010 Share Posted 27 March , 2010 I understand that there is going to be an unveiling of a Tank Corps memorial at Bullecourt this April. Has anyone anymore details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 27 March , 2010 Share Posted 27 March , 2010 The following Operations Diagram might help decide which tank is which. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 27 March , 2010 Share Posted 27 March , 2010 Interesting the D Bn war diary gives no details of this action and the history of the Bn makes little mention. S The Brigade Diary does have more detail and a short description of the action plus this map I can dig out and transcribe the description if anyone would like it. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 27 March , 2010 Share Posted 27 March , 2010 Jim Thanx for the map - very useful Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JVB Posted 21 June , 2010 Share Posted 21 June , 2010 Hi all, very interesting to find out there was another D29 in Bullecourt. I now know of 4 of them : the one in Bullecourt Damon I in the Salient Damon II in the Salient Damon III in Flesqièures any other info on D29 and Damon is welcome. We are making a new one ... Johan Vanbeselaere Poelcapelle 1917 Association vzw Belgium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 21 June , 2010 Share Posted 21 June , 2010 Hi Johan Not sure when tank crews (i.e D numbers) were firmly linked to tank names Does anyone Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntaylor Posted 25 June , 2010 Share Posted 25 June , 2010 There's a very good account of the action in 'A Company of Tanks' by Major Watson - available online here: http://www.archive.org/stream/companyoftan...age/50/mode/2up Hope this is helpful, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 25 June , 2010 Share Posted 25 June , 2010 Hi Johan Not sure when tank crews (i.e D numbers) were firmly linked to tank names Does anyone Stephen They never were. If there was cause to change a tank's Crew number the name did not necessarily change - see Crusty, which was started as C24 and became C23 without changing its name. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatbeanbags Posted 13 July , 2010 Share Posted 13 July , 2010 Have a look at this topic of mine http://1914-1918.inv...howtopic=146930 An earlier reader suggested that you contact Jean Letaille - Bologne who is the Bullecourt Museum founder/curator. Write to him & ask for help at 1 Rue d' Arras, 62128 Bullecourt - he is 82 years old & may share a wealth of info with you. He has not been well of late so do as previously suggested arrange an appointment with him if you are planning a visit. If you write to him I am sure it will cheer him up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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