Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Sunday Evening Rifle ID quiz


4thGordons

Recommended Posts

Ran accross a less commonly seen Great War rifle this weekend. Made in large numbers and saw widespread service with several armies but not too many seem to have survived in original configuration, at least this is the first one I have seen.

I was taking a few pictures for an online visual guide to GW rifles I have been working on - thought I could post a couple in the form of an ID quiz so...

What is it? I think there are enough clues here....

post-14525-1245012332.jpg

post-14525-1245012339.jpg

post-14525-1245012345.jpg

post-14525-1245012355.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know, but I will give someone else a chance. In fact I fired one a couple of months ago at a shoot we did at Bisley for the University of Birmingham Centre for First World War Studies students. We had examples of all the combatents rifles there.

Regards

TonyE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know, but I will give someone else a chance. In fact I fired one a couple of months ago at a shoot we did at Bisley for the University of Birmingham Centre for First World War Studies students. We had examples of all the combatents rifles there.

Regards

TonyE

Tony - thanks for giving folks a sporting chance - would you happen to have the list of rifles? I started a thread a while ago asking for suggestions regarding major infantry rifles... but no one answered :blush:

I decided to formalize my collecting lack of focus ;) and justify it as collection of major combatant weapons.

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to also guess Mannlicher, but beyond that, no clue.

When someone gets that one how about this one? (Not as hard to guess sadly).

DSCN4820.jpg

DSCN4821.jpgDSCN4822.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to also guess Mannlicher, but beyond that, no clue.

When someone gets that one how about this one? (Not as hard to guess sadly).

DSCN4820.jpg

DSCN4821.jpgDSCN4822.jpg

OOh that's cheating... I think that is a carbine not a rifle! :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My apologies! I was thinking in terms of long gun/hand gun. Short rifle as it were.

:lol:

Actually I think technically speaking it is a "mousqueton" isn't it?

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:lol:

Actually I think technically speaking it is a "mousqueton" isn't it?

Chris

Well even I recognised it a some French thing... :D

Regards,

MikB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe it to be the French Berthier. A particularly undervalued rifle by its users, especialy when configered for Colonial troops with the three round magazine capacity.

I had one for a while, but got rid of it when I could not source ammo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony - thanks for giving folks a sporting chance - would you happen to have the list of rifles? I started a thread a while ago asking for suggestions regarding major infantry rifles... but no one answered :blush:

I decided to formalize my collecting lack of focus ;) and justify it as collection of major combatant weapons.

Chris

As far as I remember we had the following:

UK:

SMLE

CLLE

Pattern 14

Ross III

US:

M1903

M1917

Germany:

G98

Kar98

France:

Lebel

Russia:

Moisin-Nagant

Austro-Hungary:

M95 Steyr Carbine

Italy:

Carcano

We did not manage to get an Arisaka or a Berthier there, but apart from that it was fairly representative.

Regards

TonyE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That looks like a Mannlicher.

After a Google, I suspect M1895. But my first reaction was "'ow can it be if it ain't got a butterknife 'andle?' :D

Shows how you can learn stuff on here.

Regards,

MikB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony the french had three types of guns M16 Berthier carbine the Lebel and the long Berthier 1907/15 and didn't you forget the Belgians with the long Mauser M1889 and the carbine ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony the french had three types of guns M16 Berthier carbine the Lebel and the long Berthier 1907/15 and didn't you forget the Belgians with the long Mauser M1889 and the carbine ?

IIRC the French had more versions than that, especially of the Berthier action - there was the 1890 and 1892 carbine, the 1907 (rifle) the 1907/15(rifle), M16 rifle and 1916Carbine - which is what I think Mr White's picture is.

So here is the full picture of mine:

post-14525-1245078108.jpg

post-14525-1245078316.jpg

post-14525-1245078114.jpg

and as Tony subtlely indicated it is an M1895 Steyr - however, as you can see this is the Rifle not the Carbine (which was what attracted me to it - the carbines which continued in use throughought WWII are far more common and large arsenal refinished stocks were recently released onto the US Market). It is a straight-pull action (you just pull the bolt straight back towards you rather than rotating it - which I must say I find a little disconcerting as there is no obvious locking in place as with standard bolt actions).

I have a couple more sets of pictures of different rifles if there is any interest.

Have been looking for a Belgian long rifle for a while with no joy yet.....

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony the french had three types of guns M16 Berthier carbine the Lebel and the long Berthier 1907/15 and didn't you forget the Belgians with the long Mauser M1889 and the carbine ?

My sincere apologies for omitting the gallant Belgians from my list. Consider me suitably chastised!

I was using Berthier as a generic term for the various models, not meaning one particular rifle. The same can be said about the M-n, Carcano etc.

Regards

TonyE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris I am also looking for a long Mauser but I am first trying to get a Lebel and at the end of the month I am getting a Po 8 so maybe next year .

Tony I thought you made a list with all the rifles used in the great war so I have to give you my apoligies

Kind regards Patrick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No problems, my friend. That was simply a list of what we shot on that day.

We are currently trying to set up a similar shoot for WWI machine guns, but the legal and "politically correct" hurdles may prevent us doing so.

Regards

TonyE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK so here is another one - perhaps easier so I tried to hide it a bit by not photographing, the dead give-away bits.... but I think I left enough in that this will be quick!

Really quick unless TonyE has gone to bed already!

post-14525-1245104957.jpg

post-14525-1245104964.jpg

post-14525-1245104944.jpg

post-14525-1245104933.jpg

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Model 1888.

Seph

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Model 1888.

Seph

Whose Model 1888? :P

So where are the pics of you MkI*** then? Been waiting for those.......

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whose Model 1888? :P

So where are the pics of you MkI*** then? Been waiting for those.......

Chris

Chris, I'm still waiting for the Mk1*** to come through. I enquired at the FFl chap Saturday, and he said he has not heard anything as of yet. I hope the seller has not changed his mind due to the California extra parerwork? :(

German... Gewher Model 1888 (Commission) Mauser!

Seph

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mine is indeed a Berthier m16 carbine. It's a bit of an oddball, barrel proofed to Chatellrault in 1929, all the parts Chat made and serial matching, but the serial is for a St Etienne gun from 1916.... Go figure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mine is indeed a Berthier m16 carbine. It's a bit of an oddball, barrel proofed to Chatellrault in 1929, all the parts Chat made and serial matching, but the serial is for a St Etienne gun from 1916.... Go figure.

IIRC the french had a major conversion program of the M16s to carbines in the 20's and again IIRC I believe I read that the mix/match you describe is very common. Is the barrel N stamped or not? There are so many variations of Berthier cabine - they would make a nice collection in and of themselves. Apparently quite a few were supplied to Turkey in the 20s also (Forestry Service!)

OK Seph I surrender -- yes of course GEW 88 "Commission" Rifle

Full pics to follow

Good luck on the MkI*** I have seen several for sale in the past couple of weeks but as I keep straying to the foreign rifles I can't afford to feed my Enfield habit too.

Chris

PS Seph you should get yourself a 03 (C&R) FFL - pays for itself with the first purchase and avoids the new Ca paperwork I believe (because you are a collector not a dealer)

post-14525-1245117556.jpg

post-14525-1245117562.jpg

post-14525-1245117662.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

A bit like The Hitchikers Guide trilogy (in which there are 5) ... the increasingly inaccurately named "Sunday Evening ID"

So HERE is another less commonly seen GW rifle - but what is it?

(hoping he waited long enough for TonyE to go to bed!)

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A bit like The Hitchikers Guide trilogy (in which there are 5) ... the increasingly inaccurately named "Sunday Evening ID"

So HERE is another less commonly seen GW rifle - but what is it?

(hoping he waited long enough for TonyE to go to bed!)

Chris

Italian Carcano. (?) Which may have seen service in Finland during WW2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...