Hill 60 - View blocking house proposed.

[towisuk]

Many thanks for the update Hugh, it seems as though things are being "kicked into the long grass" to slow matters up hoping the public will lose interest, something that is used by elected representatives over here frequently....

best regards

Tom

[frans]

Has anybody ever spared a thought of the family who actually live there. I should immagine they feel stressed and bullied by a few people who want there view back.

I stood on the bridge the other week and I could see Ieper clearly, still there, it had not moved.

I was approached if I would support the campain in the beginning and I decided not to. I am still of the same oppinnion because I like the idea that there are today people living opposite Hill 60 a place of total devastation with many burried in the hill, "Hill 60 itself is well protected against any interference". Is it not why the soldiers came to fight , so that we can live in peace and freedom.

What if a farmer decides to build a large barn on the passendale battlefield. Are we going to take action to have him tear it down because it is blocking the view to the cheese factory.

I feel very uncomfortable why people undertake these actions and do they speak for the majority.

[Terry_Reeves]

Frans

Well said, that pretty much matches my views on the subject.

TR

[centurion]

Frans

Well said, that pretty much matches my views on the subject.

TR

I'm stunned - something we agree on

[bierlijn]

The building was erected during a court case to decide whether it was legal to erect the building. A Belgian court has directed that the house does not conform to Belgian law. .

[frans]

The building was erected during a court case to decide whether it was legal to erect the building. A Belgian court has directed that the house does not conform to Belgian law. .

I thought this case was resolved years ago, I have been away for a while and lost sight of this.

Who would want to start a court case in the first place, then you would not have these problems.

Some issues are worth fighting for, this is a joke.

Correct me If I am wrong you would have this house dimolished.

If there are any decent people involved in this case it should be withdrawn and let these people live in peace.

I grew up in England and was taught the values of fair play, this is bullying by a few and I am to put it mildly disgusted with it all.

[WhiteStarLine]

Hi Frans, if the owners have built something that is illegal under their country's law, then I cannot see how the application of the consequences of the law to them by their own government in their own country could constitute bullying.

Regards,

Bill

[frans]

ve

Hi Frans, if the owners have built something that is illegal under their country's law, then I cannot see how the application of the consequences of the law to them by their own government in their own country could constitute bullying.

Regards,

Bill

Hi Bill, i agree with you in what you say. But as far as I can see a building application was done at the gemeeente Ieper, building application documents posted on the plot of land and the application handed in with a building spec. The gemeente Ieper gave plannig permission and they started to build. Then someone decided the view of the cathedral was blocked and lodged an appeal. With then the result being that the planning permission was withdrawn. I am not an expert on building regulations and procedures.

I spoke to a few friends of mine who live here and they could not beleave what I told them. I have seen nothing about this in the local newspapers.

I don't have problem with the house at all and I should immagine most people that live here don't either, I can still do the same things that I want to do when I visit Hill 60. Only problem with that is I am not the person that decides.

What my beef is that if you start something and you see that what you have started is going to cause a lot of misery even it is just for one family, show a bit of compassion.

But no, it is hallowed as a great victory.

I know there are a few people who would have liked the battlefields preserved, but luckely for us this has not happenend. We are left with monuments, cemeteries and fields where once the great war took place. If you wanted and had the time there is always a good reason or you think a good reason to stop a build because of what took place on that spot.

Then the sentimental argument that I want to preserve the view my great uncle had when he was there I don't realy understand, if the great uncle had any sence he kept his head down and avoided the view.

Every body has the right to take action, but I realy feel that we are starting to push the limits.

regards

Frans

[johnboy]

Has anybody ever spared a thought of the family who actually live there. I should immagine they feel stressed and bullied by a few people who want there view back.

I think the family that live there have tried to bully the local authority. They must have known that they were building something that was not to agreed plans and took the line that once built it was unlikely that to be opposed.

I grew up in England and was taught the values of fair play, this is bullying by a few and I am to put it mildly disgusted with it all.

Fair play should mean abiding by laws and accepting the consequenses . Laws are generally made to protect the majority not the minority.

[frans]

Has anybody ever spared a thought of the family who actually live there. I should immagine they feel stressed and bullied by a few people who want there view back.

I think the family that live there have tried to bully the local authority. They must have known that they were building something that was not to agreed plans and took the line that once built it was unlikely that to be opposed.

I grew up in England and was taught the values of fair play, this is bullying by a few and I am to put it mildly disgusted with it all.

Fair play should mean abiding by laws and accepting the consequenses . Laws are generally made to protect the majority not the minority.

I am afraid they had planning permission, so nothing wrong there.

I am afraid it is the minority here trying to push there will on the majority.

I can't ever rememberring anybody causing a stir in London when they rebuild the east end as a result of the blitz, should that not have been saved for prosperity, or is it a bit to close to home.

[johnboy]

I can't ever rememberring anybody causing a stir in London when they rebuild the east end as a result of the blitch, should that not have been saved for prosperity, or is it a bit to close to home.

The rebuilding was done to replace war damaged and slum housing. Over the years the tower housing has been replaced by office blocks and upmarket housing. Some of the old wharf buildings have been saved.

There have been cases in England where planning permission has been given for plans submitted only for the builders/owners to build something bigger and the building has been demolished. Unfortunately, in this case, as is usual, the local authority will not admit making an error.

[frans]

Exactly my point spare a thought for the people who own the house. They had plannig permission and now years later it has been taken away.

[towisuk]

I thought this case was resolved years ago, I have been away for a while and lost sight of this.

Who would want to start a court case in the first place, then you would not have these problems.

Some issues are worth fighting for, this is a joke.

Correct me If I am wrong you would have this house dimolished.

If there are any decent people involved in this case it should be withdrawn and let these people live in peace.

I grew up in England and was taught the values of fair play, this is bullying by a few and I am to put it mildly disgusted with it all.

"I grew up in England and was taught the values of fair play"

Fair play is standing by the rules frans......the people who built the house didn't "play fair"...all we are doing is calling "foul" and the referee has agreed.....(read the ruling)

So do we have rules to follow to ensure "fair play".......or let the "cheats" win..?????

regards

Tom

[frans]

Fairplay is when you start an action and you see that your action will result in some dramatic result for the person or persons involved. And then you have to decide if this is the result you wished for. Calling them cheats I find a bit strong, i think they just wanted to build a nice family home not realising that somebody was going to take the case further for whatever reason.

I don't want to read the ruling, another judge might have judged the other way. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Sometimes in the past it was enough when Lord Faulkner openend his mouth to change the rules. There have been also plenty of cases when the rules were not adhered to for commercial preferences. With these cases sadly it is often the case that it depends on how big the purse is. To the credit of the town hall of Ieper, it must be a nightmare to keep everybody happy. With every building application they have to take steady pills and hope that not suddenly a objection is made from far away for whatever reason.

I came to live in Belgium 25 years ago and much has changed. The pool of peace was a jungle,TocH nearly bankrupt, cows roaming the Macrea bunker. My father in law who is English made it his yearly trip on the 11.11.11 for the eight o'clock last post at the Menin gate. Up to 1996 you could be stood there with six visitors, my father in law, mother in law, my wife, my two boys and me. Often there were more runnnig the ceremony then there were visitors. So when we said we will remember them it was only by a few.

I am glad to say much has changed for the better, but also the interference has notched up a gear.

[Guest]

Often there were more runnnig the ceremony then there were visitors. So when we said we will remember them it was only by a few.

It's a bit easier to be there when you live there, and you do not have to be present to be " remembering them "?

Mike

[frans]

It's a bit easier to be there when you live there, and you do not have to be present to be " remembering them "?

Mike

I grew up in Sheffied in the 60's and we had never heard of WW1, it was only when I moved to Belgium that I learned of the great war.

I was told the story of the Sheffield pals by Bert Heyvaert who worked for the in flanders field museum and their training ground at the redmire dams.

I lived not more than half a mile from there. I can understand why it was kept quiet, not exactly a story to shout about from the top of the pennines.

Like most of my generation we all had parents who were active in the second world war and the war was won.

Of coarse it is important to remember, but it is even more important to make sure that these events don't take place anymore, and as I grow older I have my doubts that we have learned anything.

[chrislock]

It is very clear that some have strong views on whether the house should have been built, remain in place or be removed and for that part of the topic I will leave to all posting here.

What saddens me about the house owners is this:

Yesterday I watched as workmen constructed a brand new wire security fence around their garden which is clearly designed to double up also as a border hedge support or climbing aid. The conjoined hedge and fence height has now completely removed any remaining view from the Australian Memorial enclosure.

This being the case, if there was a chance of good will being shown by the house owners to ensure any remaining view of the town of Ypres was maintained then two fingers spring to mind here!

Also if another house is to be built next door then the only chance of any view whatsoever will be to stand on the rail bridge itself.

Tis such a shame it has come to this......

*I did take some pics whilst in attendance but am unable to upload. I am happy to email however if you forward me your email addy.

[towisuk]

Please note Frans..........

"Yesterday I watched as workmen constructed a brand new wire security fence around their garden which is clearly designed to double up also as a border hedge support or climbing aid. The conjoined hedge and fence height has now completely removed any remaining view from the Australian Memorial enclosure.

This being the case, if there was a chance of good will being shown by the house owners to ensure any remaining view of the town of Ypres was maintained then two fingers spring to mind here!"

.....Fair play by the owners....or a continued kick in the b***s....???

regards

Tom

[Joseph Kerr1]

NaClO4
J.

[johnboy]

NaClO4

J.

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[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

Some observations from 1963 (don't know if there is any relevance to the current situation).

Tom

[frans]

Still the same today, the outside is still fenced off. I think if I remember correctly it is classed as a mass grave.

No mention of protecting a specific view.

Something which could be a change for the better is removing the sheep so you don't have to tip toe through the sheep droppings, on second thought we better leave the sheep, they are the lawnmowers of the hill and we would end up with 5 feet high grass and once again our view would be blocked altogether.

I find it amusing that so much time and effort is spent on something so trivial.

gr

Frans

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

... No mention of protecting a specific view. ... I find it amusing that so much time and effort is spent on something so trivial.

I rather suspect that when consent was given to rebuild the Cloth Hall post WW1 that nobody thought to stipulate that a slaughterhouse shouldn't at a later date be built up against the Grote Markt wall. Does that mean that building a slaughterhouse beside the Grote Markt wall would be a good thing to do ?

Hill 60 is "trivial" ? - Perhaps from a Belgian perspective; not for the British.

Tom

[frans]

I rather suspect that when consent was given to rebuild the Cloth Hall post WW1 that nobody thought to stipulate that a slaughterhouse shouldn't at a later date be built up against the Grote Markt wall. Does that mean that building a slaughterhouse beside the Grote Markt wall would be a good thing to do ?

Hill 60 is "trivial" ? - Perhaps from a Belgian perspective; not for the British.

Tom

I am sorry Tom you have lost me on the slaughterhouse.

Hill 60 is not trivial, the stupid bickerring about the view is.

I don't know what the Belgian perspective is I am too only a guest who lives here.

regards

Frans

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

I am sorry Tom you have lost me on the slaughterhouse.

I was merely illustrating the point that at the time that Hill 60 was enclosed as a memorial site (or when the cloth Hall was rebuilt) the authorities doing the enclosing (or rebuilding) could not be expected to foresee every possible event which may befall the site at some time in the future. Should it now be possible to build a casino in the car park at Hill 60 because the authorities did not stipulate, in the 1920's, that nobody could ever build a casino in the car park at Hill 60 ? Of course not.

By the same count they probably never dreamt that somebody would someday build a house and fence which blocked out the view of Ypres which quite probably was an influencing factor in Hill 60 being set-aside as a monument in the first place.

Tom

45.23.79/13.